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BassCliff deciding on his 1st AR-15, HELP!

BassCliff

BassCliff

Professional
Hey there, hi, and hello!

Well, I've saved up enough gig money so that I can add my first AR to my gun closet. I want to buy rather than build my first one. After a couple thousand rounds then I can start thinking about upgrades, accessories, custom builds, etc. Before I go all "tinker toy" on an AR, I have a lot to learn first. Below are just a few that I've been window shopping. Even though I could afford the most expensive one on the list, it would cut into my ammo budget for a while. I was thinking $1000-$1200 for my first acquisition, maybe less. But I also don't mind "buy once, cry once" if the "bang for your buck" is really there. The less I spend on the rifle, the more I can spend on ammo. These may not be the exact model numbers I end up buying, but are the main brands I've been looking at. I'd appreciate any general comments as to these units. Let's start with the budget model:

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Here's a familiar name with a decent reputation for an entry-level rifle:

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Is this folding stock device really a cool thing to have?

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I guess this is basically the same rifle but with an optic and not the folding stock:

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I think the tungsten just looks cool. ;)

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As you can tell, I'm fond of the Saint Victor, but I hear Daniel Defense is pretty good:

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I imagine I could get a decent Wilson Combat for under $2000, then add sights and such.

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This firearm will be a range toy and possibly see some use in home defense. I seriously doubt I'll use it in any kind of competition. I haven't really decided between 16" and 18", although I suppose the shorter barrel would be better for home defense. Man, it's a saturated market out there, so many choices, so many accessories. This is going to be a ton of fun. I guess the only things I'll need right away is an optic and a sling, although I've always been an iron sight kind of guy. People have called me Amish. :ROFLMAO:

Thanks for sharing your wisdom. No need to re-invent the wheel or write a book about ARs. Just let me know if any of these are suitable or if you hate any of them.



Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
Out of all those listed any of the Springfield. As best bang for the buck. I have limited experience with Springfield but they seem as well made as other top brands.

The Daniels is top notch but not sure it will give most folks the added performance vs $$ but they are nice

I have zero experience with PSA but have seen quite a few come through the range and they are hit or miss

My own ARa I have are a S&W M&P which is almost as good as my Rock River so with that I’d say a Rock River would be a great choice and S&W wouldn’t be bad either

I will follow that up with most of the Colt offerings have been decent QC wise and of course Sig Jas good ones

But if money were really no option an HK is the Cadillac IMHO

Good luck
 
being a s/w fan and it being my 1st ar ('14) that has been a top performer would be my go-to. rock river to me are doable also in 223wylde, but heavy when it's a varmint profile @ 24". their 308's have been running well, but can't stand the fal mags! i prefer my builds as i get exactly what i want. the psa's are a good option as their price is lower than others due to making close to 100% of their parts themselves. psa makes many parts for other brands. @Talyn would probably know who more than any of us! i could be getting them switched with toolcraft, but T is the go-to on this info!
 
For your first AR I would go with a 16” PSA with Magpul or B5 furniture. You’re gonna be taking the thing apart, adding this, changing that ( believe me you will) and there’s no point in paying extra for a “ better” model when you might be changing a bunch of stuff anyway. Any parts on the Springfield or more expensive rifles that actually are better, you’re going to end up changing anyway. And for less money. If you wait and check PSA you can get a good deal on one with an FN made barrel and the PSA EPT trigger for a good price. PSA uses Toolcraft bolt carrier groups and there’s no point stepping up from that unless you go with a premium BCG. Which I doubt very seriously the stock BCG on the Saint is. Of the ones on your list I would go with the PSA at the top.


I wouldn’t worry about a folder on a carbine. Those are better suited to pistols IMO.
 
Also, as a guy who has and knows a lot of guys who have ARs I can tell you right now Springfield ARs are easily more “ Hit or miss” than PSA. You can use the search feature here if you doubt me. No one makes more ARs than PSA. I’m not saying they’re the best, I’m saying they run. And if you wait for sales you’re gonna get semi premium parts at a damn good price.
 
I did forget one. The shop I was teaching at has a connection with Andro Corp AR’s and has sold a TON of them and they run and run and are going for around 600 and come with rail firearms.

We have sold literally a couple thousand of them and several are also range patrons and came in frequently. Not a hitch. The Andro owner said he’s put his against any which I thought was bold but they are also good

androcorpind.com

5.56 NATO - Andro Corp Industries

American-made AR-15 556 NATO Firearms for performance and personalization at affordable prices. - Andro Corp Industries
androcorpind.com androcorpind.com
 
My son is very happy with one of the higher grade PSA's. I'm mostly a handgun guy, so when I wanted to take rifle classes I chose the Colt LE 6920 which mirrored the agency I was with issued rifle. I have no complaints with the Colt and think the Mag Pul furniture is a good addition.
 
Buying a high end gun for your first AR is a mistake. You’ll end up buying someone else’s favorite high end AR. Buy a reasonably priced and outfitted, reliable gun. When you figure out WTF you are doing and what you like then YOU can build the high end AR you want.

Speaking of reliable. We aren’t talking about a 1911 here. Really there are 3 parts of an AR that make an appreciable difference in how it runs. And when it’s not running right figuring it out and fixing it is pretty straight forward.
 
Oh Cliff, i see you are about to indulge in an evil black rifle. IF and i mean IF i ever got the courage to buy one it wouldn't be a DD. they are WAY overpriced. I've only ever handled one PSA rifle. It was a 223 pistol and kinda flimsy. i know they like others have better grades. when you look at one, check the slop between the halves. i know some say it don't hurt but if it has very much i don't buy.

I see most of them have muzzle brakes, i hate muzzle brakes and so will the guys next to you at the range. but that is an easy replaceable item. Of all them you listed i would buy the Grey SA victor. and would immediately replace that brake and stock. but that's just me. AR's are like jewelry, it's a personal thing. but for your first one the PSA for the price might be the best deal, But if you ever only plan on buying just the one ( :ROFLMAO: Like that's ever gonna happen :ROFLMAO: ) then maybe the Victor.

Armalite used to make good stuff, i haven't looked at a new one though. But what ever you do better do it quick, if a certain party wins this november there will be no ammo or mags for it. the panic buying will be like a feeding frenzy. just like a few years back. Just look at a few in gun shops and hold them, you know what quality is. maybe buy one from a reputable company and not one known. there are a few of them. but AR parts are interchangable if they are true mil spec. so a diamondback BCG will work in a PSA Sabre and so on.

If i wasn't such a big wuss i would buy one, so you are more of a man than me. have fun picking one out. that's part of the fun too.
 
The PSA AR's are a good budget choice but you do sacrifice with the added weight of the PSA rifle VS some of the higher priced competitors. I own quite a few different brands of AR's including a couple PSA rifles. There's a trade off with a lot of brands and I'd recommend visiting an LGS that has multiple brands and models in stock to get a feel for what you like best. Grips are universal, cheap and easy to replace where a quality handguard can be up to a few hundred to replace. I've put together a lot of AR's and I've narrowed down the features for the feel that I prefer.
 
I concur with pretty much everything @Bassbob says.

You don’t need to go high-end in your first AR; if you’re going to tinker with it (like you say you are), why pay more for components you’ll likely swap out.

Springfield’s are hit & miss, quality-wise, and you’re paying for the name.

DD—juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

Wilson—great rifle, well put together, good components…but if you’re going to be swapping them out, not worth it.

That PSA is a solid rifle. I’d go that way out if your choices listed.

Now, my personal choice?

Get on PSA’s mailing list and look for blem rifles. You can usually save $100 or more for what is usually just some minor finish discoloration (if you can even see anything at all (friends have several of their blem uppers & lowers, and half the time, you can’t find why they were “blemished”; the other half, it’s barely noticeable).

While you don’t want to build, you could get a separate upper and lower; “assembly” is simply two push pins. You can get some great deals this way…friend recently “built” a PSA similar to the one you pictured for under $400, including shipping & transfer ($99 for a complete blem lower, $249 for a blem upper).
 
All good comments. I've had/used a few over the years. For the bucks - I'd stay away from the cheap stuff. Just don't. Before you buy use/borrow a few buddy's rifles. Avoid DD, noone I know had good success from them. For the low end, Ruger makes an affordable one, so does S&W. Best of luck and have fun!
 
My input. If you want an inexpensive, entry level, range toy, possible HD, AR look at the Ruger AR556 and S&W M&P Sport III. Both for under $1000. You mentioned irons... if you want an old school A2 front sight check out the Ruger AR556. I have it and like it a lot. Trigger is not so great but that was an easy swap out.
If you want a flat top check out the Ruger AR556 MPR. 18" barrel, rifle length gas system, 1/8 twist, Ruger's "452 match trigger" (better than mil-spec) and comes with a comp. If you want 16" barrel check out the M&P Sport III.
I will probably be getting a flat top within 6 months and will most likely get either the MPR or the Sport III and top it off a 1-8x scope that i have on my Ruger AR556. The AR556 will go back to strictly iron sights because i'm Amish ;).

ps- out of the ones you show. i agree with many here... PSA.
 
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