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Below the Radar: Background Check Completion Act of 2020

Unpopular opinion, but I'm not completely opposed to extending the 3 day limit. I do oppose the "unlimited" provision, however.

My logic here is that the consequences of a single "bad apple" getting a firearm (e.g. Charleston) are not only tragic, but are extremely powerful in driving anti-2A sentiment in the United States. Law abiding gun owners have been watching the 2A football move further and further down the field for decades now. I believe we should be supporting efforts to address notable shortcomings in exchange for 50 state CCW reciprocity.
 

Troy Scott Fitch

Master Class
Founding Member
Good read on background check completion act 2020. There at it again, a must read.

The author of this"bill",has lied about his service record.He believes the Bill of Rights is a road block to a progressive gov,
 

Keystone19250

Professional
I guess I’m lucky that I have no need to purchase another firearm, that being said I do have a serious issue with anyone telling me what I can spend my hard earned money on and also telling me how long I have to wait to be allowed to have what I purchased. What’s next???
Cars, trucks?
Steak knives??
Bricks?
Baseball Bats?
Hockey sticks?
The list could be endless.
All just as deadly in the hands of someone determined to hurt or kill someone else.
 

Bassbob

Custom
Unpopular opinion, but I'm not completely opposed to extending the 3 day limit. I do oppose the "unlimited" provision, however.

My logic here is that the consequences of a single "bad apple" getting a firearm (e.g. Charleston) are not only tragic, but are extremely powerful in driving anti-2A sentiment in the United States. Law abiding gun owners have been watching the 2A football move further and further down the field for decades now. I believe we should be supporting efforts to address notable shortcomings in exchange for 50 state CCW reciprocity.
Obviously you are not a guy that always gets “Delayed” on your BGC. Which hundreds of thousands of people are. The fact is that people who can’t pass a BGC generally don’t buy guns legally and go through the process hoping to slip through the cracks.
 

Keystone19250

Professional
The author of this"bill",has lied about his service record.He believes the Bill of Rights is a road block to a progressive gov,
Richard Blumenthal is the biggest snake in the shortest grass, yes he is a liar but more disgusting then that he has no morals when it comes to doing what is right, I met the man once and hope our paths never meet again.
He is determined to change Connecticut
“The Constitution State” Go Figure.
Into another New York for just the wealthy.
 
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Luckily here in SC my CWP acts as a backround check when buying a gun. I believe in many states it is the same. Then you look at states like NJ where you will never get a CCW. In NY downstate you will never see a CCW without restrictions but upstate full carry is usually easy. I had great hopes when Trump took office for the 50 state reciprocity but I guess I was dreaming.
 

RangerBill

Operator
Luckily here in SC my CWP acts as a backround check when buying a gun. I believe in many states it is the same. Then you look at states like NJ where you will never get a CCW. In NY downstate you will never see a CCW without restrictions but upstate full carry is usually easy. I had great hopes when Trump took office for the 50 state reciprocity but I guess I was dreaming.
Here in Washington state, the CCP WAS good for the background check. Until earlier this year. Now we have the "Enhanced Background Check". Or "Universal", whichever feel good term they wish to use. I am now subject to a background check for any firearm purchase, and it ain't instant. The application now includes the local Sheriffs department, as well as then being sent off to Olympia for the Department of Licensing and the State Patrol to do their checks. On top of the Federal check. I hope they feel much safer as a result. It's all about their feelings, you know.

Regards,
Bill
 
Obviously you are not a guy that always gets “Delayed” on your BGC. Which hundreds of thousands of people are. The fact is that people who can’t pass a BGC generally don’t buy guns legally and go through the process hoping to slip through the cracks.
Fortunately, I do not get delayed. But I'm unclear about the second part of your post. You're saying that people who can't pass slip through the cracks as in buy off the street or take advantage of the 3-day rule?
 

RangerBill

Operator
A funny thing happened earlier this year. During Senate hearings on gun control bills in Olympia, myself and some like spirited individuals traveled there to testify against the legislation. We, with the help of our pro gun legislators, were able to stave off some, but not all of the bad bills. Notably, the "Magazine Bans" were shot down.

Some time later, at the start of the Covid crises, I was at one of the local firearms stores talking politics with one of the owners. Shortly, in walk four gentlemen that were obviously Liberals, (wearing Bernie hats), wanting to purchase handguns. One of them had a CCP in possession. After doing the paperwork and paying the money, they were informed that due to the crises, it would likely take upwards of a month before they could take their firearms home. The man with the CCP was especially angered about it, and asked why. Dan & I just looked at him and asked "Don't you pay attention to exactly what YOUR party has done here? We were in Olympia fighting against this kind of thing, and you have the gall to blame US??" We then suggested that even though it was too late, they might try paying closer attention to just what their elected representatives are up to next time. Better yet, vote them out of office. This is why we call them "Sheeple".

Regards,
Bill
 
A funny thing happened earlier this year. During Senate hearings on gun control bills in Olympia, myself and some like spirited individuals traveled there to testify against the legislation. We, with the help of our pro gun legislators, were able to stave off some, but not all of the bad bills. Notably, the "Magazine Bans" were shot down.

Some time later, at the start of the Covid crises, I was at one of the local firearms stores talking politics with one of the owners. Shortly, in walk four gentlemen that were obviously Liberals, (wearing Bernie hats), wanting to purchase handguns. One of them had a CCP in possession. After doing the paperwork and paying the money, they were informed that due to the crises, it would likely take upwards of a month before they could take their firearms home. The man with the CCP was especially angered about it, and asked why. Dan & I just looked at him and asked "Don't you pay attention to exactly what YOUR party has done here? We were in Olympia fighting against this kind of thing, and you have the gall to blame US??" We then suggested that even though it was too late, they might try paying closer attention to just what their elected representatives are up to next time. Better yet, vote them out of office. This is why we call them "Sheeple".

Regards,
Bill
I've heard similar stories from LGS employees in NJ who have been dealing with an influx of first time buyers shocked to learn about various restrictions on what they can own, extra fees for having to modify magazines to limit capacity, extra charges to make innocuous AR's "compliant", etc. Best of all, are the people who waited 2+ months for a FID card who are shocked to learn they need to start the process over to get a permit to buy a handgun.

People will not take 2A rights seriously until they decide they need a firearm for safety/protection and cannot get one due to arbitrary laws and restrictions. Then again, this is what they voted for, so why get angry? :)
 

Bassbob

Custom
Fortunately, I do not get delayed. But I'm unclear about the second part of your post. You're saying that people who can't pass slip through the cracks as in buy off the street or take advantage of the 3-day rule?

I'm saying that people who know they can't pass a BGC don't go to gun stores and fill out 4473s and subject themselves to BGCs. The slip through the crack comment was in reference to your irrational fear of "Just one person" somehow getting a gun in 3 days before the government can find out they are felons or whatever. I'm curious how many people that's happened to. I'm guessing zero since the vast majority of delays are people with similar names as other people or other government errors.

Although I am not a felon or not in any way or by any stretch of the imagination a person who cannot legally own a firearm I am almost always delayed. I could go through a bunch of bureaucratic crap, fingerprints, etc.. to get a UPIN which may or may not help, but frankly I don't need ANY gun RIGHT NOW. I can wait the 3 days. Making me wait longer is frankly BS. Furthermore, although I do not support felons being armed, I more vehemently oppose the government infringing on my rights. BGCs are unconstitutional to begin with and the fact is they do NOT keep felons and hood rats from arming themselves.
 

RangerBill

Operator
I find it a bit amusing that the politicians think that by fingerprinting law abiding citizens, somehow they will make the problem of gun violence lessen. Or they will catch some bad guy by fingerprints alone. All the felons are already fingerprinted, many of them multiple times, and it doesn't seem to slow them down. :unsure:

Regards,
Bill
 

KLGunner

Moderator
Staff member
I find it a bit amusing that the politicians think that by fingerprinting law abiding citizens, somehow they will make the problem of gun violence lessen. Or they will catch some bad guy by fingerprints alone. All the felons are already fingerprinted, many of them multiple times, and it doesn't seem to slow them down. :unsure:

Regards,
Bill
What I find interesting @RangerBill is that in order to obtain a CCW, LTC or CHL depending on where you live. You have to get fingerprinted and those fingerprints are ran through the FBI, ATF, DOD and CIA. Once your cleared through those agencies your allowed to obtain your cards. Also note that once your fingerprinted for your license the FBI & ATF keep those on record. So this isn’t really anything new from what we’re already doing. It just makes it more wide spread. It does not however stop guns from getting in the hands of criminals because they do not and will not get their guns legally.
 

southtex

Master Class
Founding Member
What I find interesting @RangerBill is that in order to obtain a CCW, LTC or CHL depending on where you live. You have to get fingerprinted and those fingerprints are ran through the FBI, ATF, DOD and CIA. Once your cleared through those agencies your allowed to obtain your cards. Also note that once your fingerprinted for your license the FBI & ATF keep those on record. So this isn’t really anything new from what we’re already doing. It just makes it more wide spread. It does not however stop guns from getting in the hands of criminals because they do not and will not get their guns legally.
Not to mention printing for a TWIC card, Frequent flyer (domestic), and Global entry. Then they must be redone with each renewal. I figured it was a once done always done but not so. I think I currently have 6 sets of prints on file with some or all agencies.
 
I'm saying that people who know they can't pass a BGC don't go to gun stores and fill out 4473s and subject themselves to BGCs. The slip through the crack comment was in reference to your irrational fear of "Just one person" somehow getting a gun in 3 days before the government can find out they are felons or whatever. I'm curious how many people that's happened to. I'm guessing zero since the vast majority of delays are people with similar names as other people or other government errors.

Although I am not a felon or not in any way or by any stretch of the imagination a person who cannot legally own a firearm I am almost always delayed. I could go through a bunch of bureaucratic crap, fingerprints, etc.. to get a UPIN which may or may not help, but frankly I don't need ANY gun RIGHT NOW. I can wait the 3 days. Making me wait longer is frankly BS. Furthermore, although I do not support felons being armed, I more vehemently oppose the government infringing on my rights. BGCs are unconstitutional to begin with and the fact is they do NOT keep felons and hood rats from arming themselves.
My problem with this argument is that it's fundamentally flawed. Of course they don't go to get their guns "legally" because it is illegal for them to buy them at all. If by legally you mean from a legitimate retailer, then it seems that the background check is doing exactly what it was designed to do.

I agree, they background check itself does not inherently prevent nefarious actors from getting a gun. The real beauty of a background check is that it forces felons intent on getting guns to commit a non-violent crime before they even use the gun to commit a violent crime. As controversial as it was, NYC's stop and frisk policy was incredibly effective at pulling illegally obtained guns from criminals and gang-bangers and taking these people off the streets.

It sounds like your issue stems from the fact that you have delays. Have you pursued a VAF? It sounds like there's some things that needs to get straightened out. As I stated, my background beck is usually complete and passed before I get to my dealer to pick up the gun (since nothing seems to be in stock lately). I hardly consider this to be an infringement. I honestly don't even notice.


As I stated, there are a lot of things I consider to be a legitimate infringement on my 2A rights, including permits to purchase handguns and NJ's effective ban on carrying a weapon. Most other laws, like magazine capacity and bans on collapsible stocks are pointless laws that turn ordinary people into criminals with no impact on safety, but aren't an infringement per se. I firmly, yet respectfully, disagree with your position that a background check is an infringement on your 2A rights, and hope that you recognize the value in background checks that do not support some sort of database of firearms owners.
 

Bassbob

Custom
My problem with this argument is that it's fundamentally flawed. Of course they don't go to get their guns "legally" because it is illegal for them to buy them at all. If by legally you mean from a legitimate retailer, then it seems that the background check is doing exactly what it was designed to do.

I agree, they background check itself does not inherently prevent nefarious actors from getting a gun. The real beauty of a background check is that it forces felons intent on getting guns to commit a non-violent crime before they even use the gun to commit a violent crime. As controversial as it was, NYC's stop and frisk policy was incredibly effective at pulling illegally obtained guns from criminals and gang-bangers and taking these people off the streets.

It sounds like your issue stems from the fact that you have delays. Have you pursued a VAF? It sounds like there's some things that needs to get straightened out. As I stated, my background beck is usually complete and passed before I get to my dealer to pick up the gun (since nothing seems to be in stock lately). I hardly consider this to be an infringement. I honestly don't even notice.


As I stated, there are a lot of things I consider to be a legitimate infringement on my 2A rights, including permits to purchase handguns and NJ's effective ban on carrying a weapon. Most other laws, like magazine capacity and bans on collapsible stocks are pointless laws that turn ordinary people into criminals with no impact on safety, but aren't an infringement per se. I firmly, yet respectfully, disagree with your position that a background check is an infringement on your 2A rights, and hope that you recognize the value in background checks that do not support some sort of database of firearms owners.


My problem with the BGC is the camel's nose under the tent thing. I think it is an infringement and is used as justification to further infringe on an inalienable right. I mean how many times has the definition of a "Prohibited person" changed in the last 30 years? What is stopping the BATF or congress from expanding that definition again?

The only thing that has bothered me about it really is the fact that you used to fill out a 4473 at a gun store to buy a shotgun or a long gun and that was that, you left with the gun, no government involvement. Now you gotta go through a BGC and in my case that usually means a 3 day wait and now that weapon is in a government database somewhere.

As for databases, allegedly your BGC sits in a government computer for 88 days and is then destroyed. First of all, when the NICS system was started Janet Reno straight up said their computers did not have the capacity to delete those files. Do you really think the government isn't keeping those records? And a UPIN or a VAT is you giving them permission to keep those records indefinitely. Like I said, I don't have to have ANY gun any sooner than 3 days so I won't be giving the government permission to keep a permanent record of what guns I buy.
 

Lock n' Load

Operator
If these loony, leftist, liberal politicians spent half as much time removing illegal guns and violent criminals from our streets permanently, there would be no problem. Catch and release is for fishing only! Ask them if they would include disarming their own personal protection details as well. These ridiculous attempts at pointless legislation that they feel are necessary are just plain stupid. Spend some time doing what the people who elected you sent you there to do, The People's Business, not your own personal agenda. The Founding Fathers of our country are turning over in their graves. Punish crime, not the law abiding firearms owner!
 
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