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Concealed vs. Open

I think the ongoing sentiment is mostly "feel good-ism". It it seemingly very similar to the stuff parents often tell kids about bullies to bolster their confidence in dealing with them.

I accept that all things being equal, most badguys who are above the iq of 60 would probably prefer a seemingly easier mark vs a obviously more difficult one. That said, all things are rarely equal and if risk vs gain vs consequences were the method in which badguys carried out their decision making, there would be no crime.

Plenty of well intending people simply use themselves as a template when trying to predict the actions of a stone cold criminal. It just doesnt often work that way and it doesnt really matter how you feel or what you( the normal law abiding citizen) would be deterred by.. it matters what the badguy thinks/feels ( and he probably dont think like you)
Right. I was responding to the previous point made that open carry is a deterrent because bad actors will see someone open carrying and be scared away.

I was asking if there is any data to show that’s the case.
 

KASHIRA-3

Elite
Crazy on Meth or Fet or Caine or Alcohol (or in combinations) and doing crime, for sure they don't think like me nor I them. Correct that some perps care not what you have or what you show. And the gangstas and Hood crowd, and many of the drug crowd, a firearm means nothing. Sure no way to document when a perp has a change of heart when he witnesses open carry but you know it happens.

anything is possible and the mere possibility is an extremely low standard to base an opinion, strategy or decision.
 
99% of the time I carry concealed. I work in the ATM business and part of what I do is deliver cash to ATMs. Not so much anymore, but a few years ago, I had to deliver large amounts of cash to some pretty seedy locations. Those times I carried open as a deterrent. And I know it worked because I had people tell me occasionally that someone they knew considered a robbery, but didn’t because they knew I carried. But for EDC normal carry, it’s always concealed. My brother will open carry, and it makes me cringe. Just don’t like open carry for EDC. I think it would make too many people uncomfortable. Last thing I want is for the general public to have a bad, uneasy feeling about gun owners.
 

Doom

Alpha
My state recently enacted OC for CWP holders. I find myself in agreement with Bullwinkle on OC. I’ve yet to carry openly and the thought of being in a crowded situation with an open firearm is unsettling. You don’t know what the latest, senseless Tic-Toc craze may be.
 

Ranger715

Operator
There really isn't any upside to open carry. I have noticed open carriers in my town two or three times. No one bothered them that I saw. But why expose yourself that way? Is there any advantage in exchange for the risk of being targeted or having your gun grabbed? I don't think so.

Recently, I started carrying at home, too. Initially, I wore a traditional open style holster with no consideration for concealment. But I became self conscious whenever I went outside for whatever reason. I didn't want the neighbors or passers by to think I was "strutting" or "parading" my gun around. I don't want to be that guy. So I switched to a holster that allows more discrete carry, even for home use.

I'm a little conflicted about that, I admit. We should not be embarrassed or ashamed to exercise our rights. But I don't conceal the gun for those reasons. I'm just trying to be considerate. Oh for a world where all the neighbors mowed the lawn with pistols on their hips. Imagine an HOA with that rule!
 
Surely there are pro's and con's with each option.
My brother in law says never carry open cuz the bad guy will notice and you will be the first victim.
And no doubt a visible weapon on a honorable citizen has averted criminal activity.
Sometimes I have the urge to open carry but have not yet.

I'd like to hear some discussion and experiences on the matter. Thank You.
I've gone from concealed carry to open. 3" 1911s in appendix carry served very well for concealed. Commander 1911s are what I open carry on my strong side. Yes, there are pros and cons either way. My threat assessment in Rutherford County, TN focuses on the crooked cops I've been fighting for nearly a decade now. My open carry gives them a constant reminder/warning of what awaits another kidnapping or murder attempt. They hate me for putting their former sheriff, Robert Arnold in federal prison. The boys in this godforsaken county appear to only learn lessons the hard way.
I hope you don't have to be concerned with criminal law enforcement but it is a widespread problem today in America.
 
On many backroads throughout the southern states you can find the Confederate flag flying or in windows/stickers.
The new redefinition given to it are not my thoughts, nor do the cancelers dictate my thoughts.

I haven’t seen it, but I also haven’t traveled every road or been in every small town. I have driven on backroads in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, the Carolinas, Tennessee, and much of Florida, and with a few odd execeptions haven’t seen many rebel flags on those visits to some of the most southern parts of the south (many of which are also very heavily populated with black residents).

What I will say is I don’t mind or care if you want to fly the Confederate flag. You have the right. I do question why anyone would want to celebrate a failed armed rebellion against the United States of America, which among other things defended a economy and society that relied on slave labor for its existence.
 

C. Sumpin

Custom
I haven’t seen it, but I also haven’t traveled every road or been in every small town. I have driven on backroads in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, the Carolinas, Tennessee, and much of Florida, and with a few odd execeptions haven’t seen many rebel flags on those visits to some of the most southern parts of the south (many of which are also very heavily populated with black residents).

What I will say is I don’t mind or care if you want to fly the Confederate flag. You have the right. I do question why anyone would want to celebrate a failed armed rebellion against the United States of America, which among other things defended a economy and society that relied on slave labor for its existence.
Your definition of the Confederate flag is not mine. Wokeness / cancelation / BLM will not redefine it for me either.
Welcome that a Yankee has opportunity to enjoy traveling the south. :)
 

BobM

Ronin
I haven’t seen it, but I also haven’t traveled every road or been in every small town. I have driven on backroads in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, the Carolinas, Tennessee, and much of Florida, and with a few odd exceptions haven’t seen many rebel flags on those visits to some of the most southern parts of the south (many of which are also very heavily populated with black residents).

What I will say is I don’t mind or care if you want to fly the Confederate flag. You have the right. I do question why anyone would want to celebrate a failed armed rebellion against the United States of America, which among other things defended a economy and society that relied on slave labor for its existence.

Their flag is seen or not? The Confederacy, failed? In some ways yes, in some ways no?
Their ideals, right or wrong can follow w/o a name or flag? Part of it, the rebellion or whatever it may be called, may also be that this prevailing country was also formed and created by another rebellion and an idealism that a group of people and sometimes a whole nation of people can be and be better than it's foundation and it's roots? In some ways it worked and in some ways it didn't? An invisible nation lay beneath?

No flag is seen or needed? No flag is just a flag or is it? The important ideals of a people may come to mind of what's behind any flag? What those ideals may be or not be, may be something else if followed or not followed by some of it's leaders? Can be many buried double standards behind those flags too? Actual freedom may be one of them?

From my perspective and experience, the southern way of thinking is up front and in some ways more delicate, the northern way is generally more aggressive, buried in jumbled layers of scrambled meanings and methods. Is not always seen the same as the southern ways. Delivery method's usually different, but the outcome may be still the same w/o good ideals?

Any flag, same as many statues, is only a visual symbol of peoples thoughts, feelings and ideals, it's not always the ideals or feelings themselves. Peoples actual needs create ideals, sometimes they are different from place to place. A little off track, but still on keel? American Indians may have had some of it right when saying "Whiteman speak with forked tongue." There's a very wise meaning and reasoning behind that old Indian saying. Much of that saying is because of what? Lack of good well taught ideals or something else? So, a flag's always visible even if not seen? Could be?
 
Welcome that a Yankee has opportunity to enjoy traveling the south. :)

I live here, and have this time around for the last 14 years. The prior time, I lived here for 10 years between college and a few years following school.

So I’m 56 years old and have lived in GA for 24 years.
 

cico7

Master Class
I think everyone should open carry. No question we would all behave better.
I prefer to conceal so i am not a distraction.
 

Bassbob

Ronin
There really isn't any upside to open carry. I have noticed open carriers in my town two or three times. No one bothered them that I saw. But why expose yourself that way? Is there any advantage in exchange for the risk of being targeted or having your gun grabbed? I don't think so.

Recently, I started carrying at home, too. Initially, I wore a traditional open style holster with no consideration for concealment. But I became self conscious whenever I went outside for whatever reason. I didn't want the neighbors or passers by to think I was "strutting" or "parading" my gun around. I don't want to be that guy. So I switched to a holster that allows more discrete carry, even for home use.

I'm a little conflicted about that, I admit. We should not be embarrassed or ashamed to exercise our rights. But I don't conceal the gun for those reasons. I'm just trying to be considerate. Oh for a world where all the neighbors mowed the lawn with pistols on their hips. Imagine an HOA with that rule!

It's not a great idea to let anyone know you have guns in your house really. Your neighbors may be cool, but passersby could be anyone.
 

C. Sumpin

Custom
I think everyone should open carry. No question we would all behave better.
I prefer to conceal so i am not a distraction.
I do think there is a case to be made for mass open carry.
Any existing documentation on this?

Following you home to see where you live for future burglary? Slim.
Gun snatch? What's the rate on this?

I for one would like further discussion/education on the topic of open carry.
 

Sld1959

Custom
Thinking upon the subject I think there could be unintended consequences from mass open carry. How critical those consequences would be might only become apparent over time.

With most concealed carry permits there is some type of training requirement which at least introduces the basics to those who get the permit. Be it right or wrong to put requirements on the 2nd is not the point of this thought, it is the end result of the required training. With open carry no such requirement exists, thus there would be many more completely untrained neophytes running around armed. This might result in some serious incidents. An issue? Only time would tell.
 

Bassbob

Ronin
Thinking upon the subject I think there could be unintended consequences from mass open carry. How critical those consequences would be might only become apparent over time.

With most concealed carry permits there is some type of training requirement which at least introduces the basics to those who get the permit. Be it right or wrong to put requirements on the 2nd is not the point of this thought, it is the end result of the required training. With open carry no such requirement exists, thus there would be many more completely untrained neophytes running around armed. This might result in some serious incidents. An issue? Only time would tell.
Except the training required is a joke and I could write one paragraph that would be just as useful as that training.

Remember Texas a decade or two ago ? And Arizona ? Those states had places where almost everyone was walking around with a gun in plain sight on their hip. Was it a bloodbath ?

There are legitimate reasons why open carry isn't ideal, but the idea that untrained citizenry will start hurting people accidentally isn't one of them. As further proof of this, how many states right now have constitutional carry ? Untrained citizens with guns under their shirts. Not that scary.
 

Sld1959

Custom
Except the training required is a joke and I could write one paragraph that would be just as useful as that training.

Remember Texas a decade or two ago ? And Arizona ? Those states had places where almost everyone was walking around with a gun in plain sight on their hip. Was it a bloodbath ?

There are legitimate reasons why open carry isn't ideal, but the idea that untrained citizenry will start hurting people accidentally isn't one of them. As further proof of this, how many states right now have constitutional carry ? Untrained citizens with guns under their shirts. Not that scary.


Perhaps you could. But I also believe that even a basic introduction by a well meaning instructor can help the uninitiated. Does this mean that happens in all cases, of course not.

And where, exactly, did I say that it would be a blood bath. I said, more untrained people increase the possibility of serious incidents, and I will stand by that.

I never made an argument for, or against open carry in that post, I simply said there could be unintended consequences, which again I stand by. I never said it was a major issue, or argument, simply something that could occur.
 
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Bassbob

Ronin
Perhaps you could. But I also believe that even a basic introduction by a well meaning instructor can help the uninitiated. Does this mean that happens in all cases, of course not.

And where, exactly, did I say that it would be a blood bath. I said, more untrained people increase the possibility of serious incidents, and I will stand by that.

I never made an argument for, or against open carry in that post, I simply said there could be unintended consequences, which again I stand by.
It's also possible that 14% of those people will suddenly become armed robbers. The possibility of serious incidents is present and far more realistic in a myriad of things that aren't constitutionally protected. Such as driving. Driving while texting. Alligator wrestling, sky-diving, football, working in north St. Louis, jogging or bicycling on public roads, showering with your wife and drinking alcohol. Shall we ban those or require training ?

Okay, addressing the "unintended consequences". My position, which is supported by data from every state that has permitless carry, is that your fears are unfounded. And certainly the possibility of those perceived unintended consequences comes nowhere close to justification of mandatory training to exercise a constitutionally protected right.
Yeah, I know you said that wasn't the point of your thought, but it is inextricable from the point you are trying to make.
 

Sld1959

Custom
It's also possible that 14% of those people will suddenly become armed robbers. The possibility of serious incidents is present and far more realistic in a myriad of things that aren't constitutionally protected. Such as driving. Driving while texting. Alligator wrestling, sky-diving, football, working in north St. Louis, jogging or bicycling on public roads, showering with your wife and drinking alcohol. Shall we ban those or require training ?

Okay, addressing the "unintended consequences". My position, which is supported by data from every state that has permitless carry, is that your fears are unfounded. And certainly the possibility of those perceived unintended consequences comes nowhere close to justification of mandatory training to exercise a constitutionally protected right.
Yeah, I know you said that wasn't the point of your thought, but it is inextricable from the point you are trying to make.
I will bow down Sir to your obviously more passionate position, and your knowledge of what I meant and said.

My apologies.
 
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