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Fighting Off a Gun Grab: Do You Need a Fixed Blade Knife?

CEW

Alpha
Been there in my first year in LE and was a life changing experience as I quit smoking that day... Oh the perp that got his hand on my .357 Magnum, in a low slug quick draw holster had to get an attitude adjustment from a Dodge Bumper with my free hand. He let go of the pistol. The take away was the perps will stay the same age, I wouldn't and Tex Schmacher retention holster was ordered on my meager salary as a Deputy. I did run into the Perp a few months later and enjoyed the arrest for armed robbery and he didn't resist this time as he was looking at the business end with a smile on my face.
Yeah one of these incidents will remain with one forever...
 

Sld1959

Professional
Need, for many situations,, not just gun grabs, maybe yes, have available legally, thats another matter. So for many, the folder is a compromise dictated to them. Therefore, if a knife is in your repertoire for life saving situations, training and continuous practice opening said folder, should be high on priority lists. Same is true for fixed blades.
 
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10mmLife

Moderator
Staff member
Founding Member
A fixed blade is a great back up weapon and probably one of the best weapons you can have in a close contact struggle.

I've practiced Filipino and Indonesian blade arts for many years and the training will give you a definite advantage but the one thing you learn in the blade arts is that no matter the amount training it's not wise to willingly go into a fight with blades even against the unskilled as you will most likely be cut or stabbed. Knife fighting is not like the movies and people don't drop instantly and they can remain a threat long after they receive a fatal blow.
 

10mmLife

Moderator
Staff member
Founding Member
Just looked at that knife online. Going to order one.
They feel great in the hand and the blade is really short. It's more of a cutting/slicing blade. The shorter blade has less of a chance of getting snagged on clothing and less chance of getting torqued out of your hand like a fulcrum if pushed from the side where a long blade can be moved a lot easier in a struggle.
 

TSiWRX

Professional
Being proficient with a blade is a whole different skill set, not a smart idea for the untrained.

^ Which the author did make clear, and is also a sentiment that he highlights again and again throughout the article.

Todd Burgreen's article said:
Thinking equipment alone without training will suffice, however, is more ill-placed optimism. Just like firearms, edged weapons require ongoing training to be effective when you need it most — if not even more.

^ And towards this......

...no matter the amount training it's not wise to willingly go into a fight with blades even against the unskilled as you will most likely be cut or stabbed. Knife fighting is not like the movies and people don't drop instantly and they can remain a threat long after they receive a fatal blow.

-and-

... no matter who wins, you both lose. The only way to win a knife fight is to not get into one.

For those who even have a remote chance to engage in good training towards this, the "competitive and non-cooperative" framework for drills as taught by the likes of Craig Douglas/ShivWorks, followed by the crucible of physical combatives, will be eye-opening.

There are now a number of vetted and legitimate schools/trainers offering integrated combatives coursework geared specifically for the legal concealed-carry citizen. It's worth the investment, and yes, they are scaled towards age as well as physical ability/disabilities/injuries. It's not "fight club." It's actual learning, and those who seriously teach it are able to achieve knowledge and skills transfer to even those of us who are not 100% able bodied and/or filled with youthful vigor. :)
 
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TSiWRX

Professional
[ Editing timed-out, pardon the add-on below. ]

----

Specialized tools such as the FIST helmet/suit, High Gear ADAPTIV suit, the No Lie Knife, the Shocknife, etc. are the physical integrated-combatives equivalent of UTM and Simunitions, and allow for some very, very realistic training scenarios, mitigating and preventing injuries while really getting the participants' heart-rates going.
 

KillerFord1977

Ronin
Founding Member
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Bassbob

Ronin
^ Which the author did make clear, and is also a sentiment that he highlights again and again throughout the article.



^ And towards this......



-and-



For those who even have a remote chance to engage in good training towards this, the "competitive and non-cooperative" framework for drills as taught by the likes of Craig Douglas/ShivWorks, followed by the crucible of physical combatives, will be eye-opening.

There are now a number of vetted and legitimate schools/trainers offering integrated combatives coursework geared specifically for the legal concealed-carry citizen. It's worth the investment, and yes, they are scaled towards age as well as physical ability/disabilities/injuries. It's not "fight club." It's actual learning, and those who seriously teach it are able to achieve knowledge and skills transfer to even those of us who are not 100% able bodied and/or filled with youthful vigor. :)
Yeah, not a bad idea to learn how to use a knife, but trust me, you can have all the high dollar training you want and when the guy you're fighting has a knife as well, you're most likely getting cut up. I've been told by more than one guy with much more experience with actual hand to hand combat that anyone who says they can train you to win knife fights is just stealing your money. Sure, some training can mitigate some situations, but it's just way to impossible to predict movement when a matter of missing by an inch means the big artery on your wrist just got opened up or you now have only one eye ball.
 

TSiWRX

Professional
Yeah, not a bad idea to learn how to use a knife, but trust me, you can have all the high dollar training you want and when the guy you're fighting has a knife as well, you're most likely getting cut up. I've been told by more than one guy with much more experience with actual hand to hand combat that anyone who says they can train you to win knife fights is just stealing your money. Sure, some training can mitigate some situations, but it's just way to impossible to predict movement when a matter of missing by an inch means the big artery on your wrist just got opened up or you now have only one eye ball.

^ This is actually precisely the reason why I posted what I posted about the "competitive and non-cooperative" framework for drills and the "force-on-force" type of physical integrated-combatives training. It's also why I listed some of the tools that are used to allow for this type of training, with the ability to elicit some level of visceral fear-response.

A lot of folks see the neatly defined skills drills performed with (a) non-competitive and cooperative training partner(s) and assume that's the realities of physical combatives (weapons disarms are probably the hallmark of this type of work - ), but the harsh realities of the actual fights are quite different.

-----

I think it's also worth pointing out that *any* type of training - including that in defensive firearms - also has this same problem.

Just as you were told by someone with a lot of hand-to-hand experience about the realities of that kind of engagements, students who take the time to talk to their firearms instructors will also hear tales of their brothers/sisters-in-arms who were just as well -or even better- trained and who "did everything right," but nevertheless perished or were injured.

The disconnect between "drills" and "reality" is that in the latter, the other party has a say in the outcome. Force-on-force and other competitive/non-cooperative training is perhaps the best bridge that we have between the two.
 

bmarr

Alpha
A fixed blade is a great back up weapon and probably one of the best weapons you can have in a close contact struggle.

I've practiced Filipino and Indonesian blade arts for many years and the training will give you a definite advantage but the one thing you learn in the blade arts is that no matter the amount training it's not wise to willingly go into a fight with blades even against the unskilled as you will most likely be cut or stabbed. Knife fighting is not like the movies and people don't drop instantly and they can remain a threat long after they receive a fatal blow.
The loser in a knife fight lies bleeding on the ground, the winner lies bleeding in an ambulance.
 

BrewIt

Operator
In Chicago, legal blade length is limited to 2.5” so the KBar TDI is one of the few legal choices.
When I bought mine, I bought the large model to fit my large hands. I recently became aware of the Illinois law (I live on the border of Iowa / Illinois) I will now be purchasing the smaller version.
 
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