testtest

Gel Testing Federal Personal Defense Punch .45

I noticed that that Yamil Sued commented on the age of the .45 ACP cartridge. It's old. However, many seem to believe that 9x19 is a modern cartridge. It isn't. 9x19 was introduced in 1902. .45 ACP was released in 1904. So, the oldest of common rimless handgun cartridges is not the ,45 ACP, but the 9x19. .380 ACP appeared in 1908.

If we look at recent testing, such as the Joint Agency Ballistic Testing report, we find that the .45 ACP out-performs all 9mm types tested. Indeed, for use against humans, it was marginally superior to 10mm. How so? Reliability of function. .45 ACP JHP types suffered less failures to expand. Its huge cavity was not clogged as easily or frequently. Velocity is only one aspect of performance. There are other equally vital factors. .45 ACP generated a larger permanent wound cavity (PWC) and penetration was very similar. 10mm, that expanded properly, had a greater tendency to break up due to its velocity. Their conclusion was that 230gr JHP performed the best of all .45 ACP loads tested... Except one. Underwood Xtreme Defender 120gr solid copper performed the best. Indeed, this solid copper design was significantly superior to JHP designs in every caliber they tested. Why? Hydrodynamics. The Lehigh Defense bullet used by Underwood requires high velocity to do its magic. They are surely fast. Moreover, they are barrier blind. Unaffected by clothing, dry wall, auto glass or similar materials that will cause a JHP to clog and not expand.

How fast?
The .45 ACP 120gr +P generates between 1,400 and 1,430 fps from a 5" 1911 pistol. (535 lb/ft)
In 10mm, their 115gr generates around 1,700 fps. (738 lb/ft)
40 S&W 100gr leaves the muzzle at or about 1,400 fps. (500 lb/ft)
9mm 90gr +P attain 1,475 fps. (435 lb/ft)

About two years ago, I began switching from JHP ammo to the Underwood Xtreme Defender in my carry guns. I load these in my Hellcat, my XD-M Elite OSP Compact 45, my CZ P-07, my 2" .38 Special revolver and 2.5" .44 Special (125 gr @ 1,250 fps with 434 lb/ft of energy). Their loadings for .38 and .44 Special make these old rounds very effective and relevant in the 21st century. Technology is saving many older, out of favor cartridges.

Most arguments back and forth about 9mm vs .45 ACP are based upon mythology passed from one to another, invariably based upon something some idiot stated. Mythology that states that .45 ACP is ancient, but 9x19 isn't. There's no debating that the .45 ACP is the more damaging, lethal and functionally reliable round using modern defense ammo. Recent science based testing proves this beyond debate. That said, there's many good arguments for 9mm as a defensive cartridge. Reduced recoil. Increased capacity. Availability. Lower cost. Greater variety of ammunition and firearms, especially CCW size pistols. This is why my most used CCW pistol is a 9mm (Hellcat). I have a safe full of 9mm Berettas, Springfields, Caniks, Glocks and many others. 9mm will serve me well. However, it isn't my first pistol choice to defend the homestead. My choice for home defense is a 14+1 .45 ACP SAR K2 loaded with Xtreme Defender +P ammo with a TLR-7A on it.
 

TidalWave

Professional
I noticed that that Yamil Sued commented on the age of the .45 ACP cartridge. It's old. However, many seem to believe that 9x19 is a modern cartridge. It isn't. 9x19 was introduced in 1902. .45 ACP was released in 1904. So, the oldest of common rimless handgun cartridges is not the ,45 ACP, but the 9x19. .380 ACP appeared in 1908.

If we look at recent testing, such as the Joint Agency Ballistic Testing report, we find that the .45 ACP out-performs all 9mm types tested. Indeed, for use against humans, it was marginally superior to 10mm. How so? Reliability of function. .45 ACP JHP types suffered less failures to expand. Its huge cavity was not clogged as easily or frequently. Velocity is only one aspect of performance. There are other equally vital factors. .45 ACP generated a larger permanent wound cavity (PWC) and penetration was very similar. 10mm, that expanded properly, had a greater tendency to break up due to its velocity. Their conclusion was that 230gr JHP performed the best of all .45 ACP loads tested... Except one. Underwood Xtreme Defender 120gr solid copper performed the best. Indeed, this solid copper design was significantly superior to JHP designs in every caliber they tested. Why? Hydrodynamics. The Lehigh Defense bullet used by Underwood requires high velocity to do its magic. They are surely fast. Moreover, they are barrier blind. Unaffected by clothing, dry wall, auto glass or similar materials that will cause a JHP to clog and not expand.

How fast?
The .45 ACP 120gr +P generates between 1,400 and 1,430 fps from a 5" 1911 pistol. (535 lb/ft)
In 10mm, their 115gr generates around 1,700 fps. (738 lb/ft)
40 S&W 100gr leaves the muzzle at or about 1,400 fps. (500 lb/ft)
9mm 90gr +P attain 1,475 fps. (435 lb/ft)

About two years ago, I began switching from JHP ammo to the Underwood Xtreme Defender in my carry guns. I load these in my Hellcat, my XD-M Elite OSP Compact 45, my CZ P-07, my 2" .38 Special revolver and 2.5" .44 Special (125 gr @ 1,250 fps with 434 lb/ft of energy). Their loadings for .38 and .44 Special make these old rounds very effective and relevant in the 21st century. Technology is saving many older, out of favor cartridges.

Most arguments back and forth about 9mm vs .45 ACP are based upon mythology passed from one to another, invariably based upon something some idiot stated. Mythology that states that .45 ACP is ancient, but 9x19 isn't. There's no debating that the .45 ACP is the more damaging, lethal and functionally reliable round using modern defense ammo. Recent science based testing proves this beyond debate. That said, there's many good arguments for 9mm as a defensive cartridge. Reduced recoil. Increased capacity. Availability. Lower cost. Greater variety of ammunition and firearms, especially CCW size pistols. This is why my most used CCW pistol is a 9mm (Hellcat). I have a safe full of 9mm Berettas, Springfields, Caniks, Glocks and many others. 9mm will serve me well. However, it isn't my first pistol choice to defend the homestead. My choice for home defense is a 14+1 .45 ACP SAR K2 loaded with Xtreme Defender +P ammo with a TLR-7A on it.
…very well written and Thank You.

I’ve been concerned about all my friends’ groupthink jumping on the 9mm bandwagon for a long time now. Explained the diff between HD and SD/carry I don’t know how many times…
 

Shattowalker

Operator
Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled "Gel Testing Federal Personal Defense Punch .45" and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/gel-testing-federal-personal-defense-punch-45/.

Guess I'm just to old but long ago Super Vel came out and all of us deputy's carried S&W model 19 and used the Super but in today's world I see a lot of +P floating around hear about malfunctions when running to much hot stuff. Back in the 50s & 60s we were trained to shoot what we use and use what we shoot and that way no surprises. The other thing is IF you don't hit the target and stop the threat than the super duper ammo never proves it's worth but again I am over the hill and I don't remember ever making it to the top of that hill
 
I have no doubt that this is quality ammunition, but it's hard to beat Hydra-Shok ammo. I've carried it for years and I'll bet on it. I killed a deer with my .45 acp so I could really tell how well it worked on a live body...did the job with one round.
 

Annihilator

SAINT
Founding Member
Guess I'm just to old but long ago Super Vel came out and all of us deputy's carried S&W model 19 and used the Super but in today's world I see a lot of +P floating around hear about malfunctions when running to much hot stuff. Back in the 50s & 60s we were trained to shoot what we use and use what we shoot and that way no surprises. The other thing is IF you don't hit the target and stop the threat than the super duper ammo never proves it's worth but again I am over the hill and I don't remember ever making it to the top of that hill
Do you remember S&W’s Nyclad ammo for the .38special, 158gr SWC lead bullet with the nylon costing to help prevent leading in barrels, then it got banned cause supposedly it went thru bullet proof vests
 

TidalWave

Professional
Do you remember S&W’s Nyclad ammo for the .38special, 158gr SWC lead bullet with the nylon costing to help prevent leading in barrels, then it got banned cause supposedly it went thru bullet proof vests
Vaguely recall that - was it the first one dubbed a “cop killer” round or was that another one?
 
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