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If you didn't think there was a national gun registry....

That's ridiculous. That guy should have asked to see a warrant. If they failed to produce one he then should ask them to leave.

That said, no one in their right mind believes the ATF destroys transaction records after 88 days. Who would make sure they do ? The ATF, that's who. lol

I would have been asking them for information. Like who is your supervisor ? Who authorized this "Visit"? You guys mind waiting out in your car until my lawyer gets here ?
 
people, i have to admit, i am confused.

when i buy a gun, or more than 1 at one time, i fill out the form 4473..

then since i have a CCW, they no longer require me to fill out my state's form.

a "simple" phone call to check on my background, and it's a done deal..

only AFTER i get approved for a purchase, does the salesman write down the gun, make, model, serial number and caliber, never BEFORE that phone call to NCIC...

so, then, how would the ATF know what i bought, if they do not have that information, before hand?

in fact, so many times, when i went to buy 1 gun, then got the approval, i "sometimes" then buy another gun, since i have been approved with that call....

so this confuses me.

do some states when they call in NCIC, also at the same time, report the serial numbers during that call..????

thanks in advance
 
people, i have to admit, i am confused.

when i buy a gun, or more than 1 at one time, i fill out the form 4473..

then since i have a CCW, they no longer require me to fill out my state's form.

a "simple" phone call to check on my background, and it's a done deal..

only AFTER i get approved for a purchase, does the salesman write down the gun, make, model, serial number and caliber, never BEFORE that phone call to NCIC...

so, then, how would the ATF know what i bought, if they do not have that information, before hand?

in fact, so many times, when i went to buy 1 gun, then got the approval, i "sometimes" then buy another gun, since i have been approved with that call....

so this confuses me.

do some states when they call in NCIC, also at the same time, report the serial numbers during that call..????

thanks in advance
They don’t. Unless they go to the store and pull the 4473. They only know if it’s a handgun, long gun or other.
 
4473's get turned in to the ATF from any FFL dealer who goes out of business or otherwise stops dealing in firearms and gives up/loses their FFL. On that 4473 is everything about you and what you purchased. If you think the ATF doesn't have a database of this, you are 100% delusional.

@Old_Me - a proceed on a NICS check is only good for that purchase and any items listed on that 4473 when that NICS check was conducted. You can't go "OH I passed my check, let me add some more items". Anything additional would require another background check. Also, that sucks that you have a CCW and they still call the FBI for a check on you lol. And do businesses actually still call in for background checks? good lord it's 2022.
 
4473's get turned in to the ATF from any FFL dealer who goes out of business or otherwise stops dealing in firearms and gives up/loses their FFL. On that 4473 is everything about you and what you purchased. If you think the ATF doesn't have a database of this, you are 100% delusional.

@Old_Me - a proceed on a NICS check is only good for that purchase and any items listed on that 4473 when that NICS check was conducted. You can't go "OH I passed my check, let me add some more items". Anything additional would require another background check. Also, that sucks that you have a CCW and they still call the FBI for a check on you lol. And do businesses actually still call in for background checks? good lord it's 2022.
well, i don't know...i was there...the salesman made a phone call, came back and said i was good to go.

i then decided on another gun, as well as the first one i picked out........since i had passed the phone call check.

so 2 guns i bought.....

in fact, i was told, i could buy the entire store, since i passed the phone call..

so you tell me...........what's up...???????

did he call the NICS, or did he call the police dept..??

it was AFTER i passed the phone call, he jotted down the serial number, model, brand, and caliber....

not before........

you tell me.....

(he either phone called, or went online, how da heck would i know exactly how they communicate????)

i could care less, i passed, and i took home 2 guns and there was no second background check.......
 
well, i don't know...i was there...the salesman made a phone call, came back and said i was good to go.

i then decided on another gun, as well as the first one i picked out........since i had passed the phone call check.

so 2 guns i bought.....

in fact, i was told, i could buy the entire store, since i passed the phone call..

so you tell me...........what's up...???????

did he call the NICS, or did he call the police dept..??

it was AFTER i passed the phone call, he jotted down the serial number, model, brand, and caliber....

not before........

you tell me.....

(he either phone called, or went online, how da heck would i know exactly how they communicate????)

i could care less, i passed, and i took home 2 guns and there was no second background check.......
Yup, I've bought guns after I was approved for a BGC on an initial purchase. Here in Pennsylvania they just add it to the 4473 form. My buddy who was the Gun counter manager told me I could continue to add guns to the form since I was already approved. The only caveat was that I couldn't leave the store, else if I did, I'd need to go through another background check if I returned to buy again.

Now for multiple firearms bought within a certain time frame (like at one time still in the LGS), the ATF requires the FFL to fill out other forms recording multiple purchases on firearms. I've done this multiple times, with probably 4-5 max firearms bought being at one time (BTW: the ATF has never contacted me on any of my purchases). I'll link some ATF information and ATF PDF forms on this subject below:

ATF instructions for FFL on multiple firearm sales. Note the box for more questions and answers which then link to other instructions/forms:


Form 3310.4 - Multiple sales of pistols and revolvers:


Form 3310.12 - Multiple sales of certain types of rifles (Note: article states this is for those States that reside on the Mexican Border. Not sure if it's been changed to include more States or not since):


You can see the information the FFL has to supply to the ATF (your name, residence, SN's of firearms purchased, etc). I've been told by sales people at different LGS and Gun Shows that these forms need to be filled out if buying 2 or more guns and one told me 3 or more guns (so I'm not really sure of the number, but I'd venture to think 2 or more knowing our ATF).
 
My guess on this, somebody must have tipped off the ATF, either the gun shop, salesperson at the shop, or someone who knew he purchased several guns, sounds to hinky to me
When my buddy was working at the LGS (he's since left unfortunately), the ATF was tracking individuals suspected of making straw purchases at two of their stores. Each time, the stores would report to the ATF "that person was in here again today and bought ###, of xyz guns"). The ATF would just tell them to keep on selling them guns. One time I was there and a suspected person was there buying guns. My buddy pointed the person out and said "that's one of them". I told him I couldn't believe that the AFT wasn't doing anything, especially with more and more shootings going on in surrounding towns, and in Philadelphia where several of these suspect buyers were from and where most of the guns were probably being sold. I told/asked him "how many of these guns could possibly have been used in shootings and killings and the ATF is doing nothing (but tracking)?" He agreed and said it's just like the "Fast and Furious" deal the Government ran in Mexico. A few days later both LGSs told the ATF, "under good conscience, we can no longer sell to those suspected persons". Whether any action against those persons was taken by the ATF afterwards, is unknown to that FFL.
 
Yup, I've bought guns after I was approved for a BGC on an initial purchase. Here in Pennsylvania they just add it to the 4473 form. My buddy who was the Gun counter manager told me I could continue to add guns to the form since I was already approved. The only caveat was that I couldn't leave the store, else if I did, I'd need to go through another background check if I returned to buy again.

Now for multiple firearms bought within a certain time frame (like at one time still in the LGS), the ATF requires the FFL to fill out other forms recording multiple purchases on firearms. I've done this multiple times, with probably 4-5 max firearms bought being at one time (BTW: the ATF has never contacted me on any of my purchases). I'll link some ATF information and ATF PDF forms on this subject below:

ATF instructions for FFL on multiple firearm sales. Note the box for more questions and answers which then link to other instructions/forms:


Form 3310.4 - Multiple sales of pistols and revolvers:


Form 3310.12 - Multiple sales of certain types of rifles (Note: article states this is for those States that reside on the Mexican Border. Not sure if it's been changed to include more States or not since):


You can see the information the FFL has to supply to the ATF (your name, residence, SN's of firearms purchased, etc). I've been told by sales people at different LGS and Gun Shows that these forms need to be filled out if buying 2 or more guns and one told me 3 or more guns (so I'm not really sure of the number, but I'd venture to think 2 or more knowing our ATF).
ok, all i know is, that here, the salesman added another purchase to the 4473 form, while i was there...now...if they have to fill out another form after i leave..??? i have no idea..

yes, too, once i take one gun, cash out, THEN decide to buy another while there..??

YES, another 4473 and "phone call" or whatever for the BGC .
 
ok, all i know is, that here, the salesman added another purchase to the 4473 form, while i was there...now...if they have to fill out another form after i leave..??? i have no idea..

yes, too, once i take one gun, cash ut, THEN decide to buy another while there..??

YES, another 4473 and "phone call" or whatever for the BGC .
Sometimes for multiple sales of firearms they'll fill it out later (I think they have a few days to submit it). One time, one LGS did it in front of me complaining (not to me), they now have to fill out another form since I bought 3 guns. I told him I bough several guns at one time before and never saw them fill out another form, and he said "they probably did it later after you left". That's how I found out about it, otherwise I'd never had known.
 
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Hinky…..hinky…….hinky……😬
 
well, i don't know...i was there...the salesman made a phone call, came back and said i was good to go.

i then decided on another gun, as well as the first one i picked out........since i had passed the phone call check.

so 2 guns i bought.....

in fact, i was told, i could buy the entire store, since i passed the phone call..

so you tell me...........what's up...???????

did he call the NICS, or did he call the police dept..??

it was AFTER i passed the phone call, he jotted down the serial number, model, brand, and caliber....

not before........

you tell me.....

(he either phone called, or went online, how da heck would i know exactly how they communicate????)

i could care less, i passed, and i took home 2 guns and there was no second background check.......

If they call NICS, I can't imagine it would be for anything other than a background check lol. Does your state allow your CCW license/permit to exempt you from a NICS check?

As for adding additional firearms AFTER you've received a proceed for that specific 4473/sale, That's 100% illegal and your LGS is without a doubt breaking the law and playing fast and loose with his FFL. The serial numbers for firearms being purchased on that 4473 have to be entered on the form prior to the transaction going to NICS for a response.

Either way, the phone call thing is interesting... IF your state laws allow NICS exemption via a state issued license. (not every state will honor their issued permit as an exemption for NICS).

The 3310's (multiple firearms purchases) forms are run by the FFL At the end of each day typically, one for long guns and one for handguns. They shouldn't have any involvement from you, that's a report the ATF requires FFL's to run so they can keep track of large or otherwise suspicious purchases.
 
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I (on one visit) put my SA RO Elite, Mrs Tinyman's S&W 380EZ and a 12ga Mossburg 'tactical' shotgun on the 4473. No gummint toads came to see me at the house, mall or post office.
If they call NICS, I can't imagine it would be for anything other than a background check lol. Does your state allow your CCW license/permit to exempt you from a NICS check?

As for adding additional firearms AFTER you've received a proceed for that specific 4473/sale, That's 100% illegal and your LGS is without a doubt breaking the law and playing fast and loose with his FFL. The serial numbers for firearms being purchased on that 4473 have to be entered on the form prior to the transaction going to NICS for a response.

Either way, the phone call thing is interesting... IF your state laws allow NICS exemption via a state issued license. (not every state will honor their issued permit as an exemption for NICS).

The 3310's (multiple firearms purchases) forms are run by the FFL At the end of each day typically, one for long guns and one for handguns. They shouldn't have any involvement from you, that's a report the ATF requires FFL's to run so they can keep track of large or otherwise suspicious purchases.
Not according to the ATF. You can add firearms to the 4473 up until the time the original firearm is transferred.

My LGS wouldn't let me add a handgun to one with a rifle on it though.
 
1) If they call NICS, I can't imagine it would be for anything other than a background check lol. Does your state allow your CCW license/permit to exempt you from a NICS check?

2) As for adding additional firearms AFTER you've received a proceed for that specific 4473/sale, That's 100% illegal and your LGS is without a doubt breaking the law and playing fast and loose with his FFL. The serial numbers for firearms being purchased on that 4473 have to be entered on the form prior to the transaction going to NICS for a response.

3) Either way, the phone call thing is interesting... IF your state laws allow NICS exemption via a state issued license. (not every state will honor their issued permit as an exemption for NICS).

4) The 3310's (multiple firearms purchases) forms are run by the FFL At the end of each day typically, one for long guns and one for handguns. They shouldn't have any involvement from you, that's a report the ATF requires FFL's to run so they can keep track of large or otherwise suspicious purchases.
1) they "make a call/or internet connection", i could care less how it is done, i don't ask questions

2) no it is NOT here in my state..i can add the entire store of what, maye 10,000 guns..?? then pay and leave.
(in reality, i do believe there are lines for maybe 4 guns in total that i can buy at 1 time.) THEN another form comes out, can't say what it is, maybe another 4473..?? an amended form..."???? and MORE GUNS can be added, WITH NO MORE CONTACTING NICS OR WHO EVER, SINCE AN APPROVAL WAS ALREADY MADE...!!!

(that's what the salesman told, me, that ONCE i was approved, i could buy out the entire store)

and NO...i sit there, fill out form 4473, and NEVER is the serial number entered onto the form by me, or the salesperson...only AFTER the approval, is it jotted down. NOW, IF the salesman jots down the serial number on a piece of paper, and takes it with him for that "call", I DO NOT KNOW, as he takes the ENTIRE form 4473 with him, and NOTHING regarding a serial number is ON THAT FORM...

3) i said before, and i'll say it again, since i think maybe you couldn't "hear me"....and that is, I AM NOT SURE WHO THE STORE ACTUALLY "CALLS", EITHER NICS, OR THE LOCAL PD"

i can "ONLY SURMISE", THEY ARE CONTACTING NICS

4) i could care less the rigermorole the gun shops go thru during the day or at day's end.

LISTEN, where YOU LIVE, things are done 1 way...in other parts of the country, things are done in like 47,000 DIFFERENT ways, all for the end result.

to continue to chide me regarding how things are done IN MY STATE, is useless, pointless, and comes close to harassment, of a member here.

just ACCEPT things the way they are done IN OTHER STATES.
 
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That’s your new, Re-imagined ATF. It would come as no surprise if these ’house checks’ are merely a statistical gathering to show some high ranking desk jockey is “ Doing Something” trying to get a promotion. Low on the operational chain, these field agents just being told what to do by a boss whose boss is a WDC loyalist that reports a DOJ Ruler that was passed over Twice for a seat on the nations highest court. Everybody at some point has worked for a guy with a chip on his shoulder, heck, I was passed over more than once for a cush job. Sours the soul.

This type of operation is similar to those DWI, seat beat or using cellphone while driving checkpoints that are periodically set up, often in response to a recent incident. Create an optic of “Doing Something” and wave around a binder of accomplishments.

Yes, it’s easier and safer to check up on the least confrontational, the most compliant populous. Just look at the tactical advantage the other agents had over a suspect straw purchaser. They didn’t seem that concerned of any what-if. Something not right and I’d inquire and follow up at the LGS to see if they’re aware of this sort of follow up or other customers. A personal visit even if granted an appointment with the ATF regional office will likely improbable and not allowed.

National registry - Yes.
Obligation to justify your purchases on that 4473 - No.
Void the 4473 and nullify the Sale - hmmmm.
#Sand Factor - 100%
 
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