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Retention.

RandomHero

RandomHero

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As many people own pistols, variations of experience in shooting them has a wide range. Many people talk about shooting at the range or with friends on private land. But, it is a silent subject "retention." How often do you train in retaining your firearm from an assailant trying to take it from you?
 
Annihilator said:
To be honest, never, I guess it’s never to late to learn.
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That is an honest answer and personally love the idea that it is never to late to learn. They key in my area is to not let others know you are carrying, otherwise the police will be swarming. Luckily, everyone in my house is a martial artist so we are all trained for the event of people being in your personal space. Hopefully that would at least assist in de-escalation so the weapon can stay comfortably where it is.
 
"Retention" is tricky......

A part of the equation is physical retention techniques: as in "keeping the gun with you." This, without a partner as well as truly pressure-cooking (non-cooperative training), is likely a zero-sum skill when learned in an academic manner - i.e. reading an article or watching a YouTube video:

www.activeresponsetraining.net

Your Tactical Training Scenario: In-Hand Weapons Retention

Written by: Greg Ellifritz Have you ever thought about what you would do if a criminal lunged for your gun as you were holding him at gunpoint? That happened to a police officer last
www.activeresponsetraining.net www.activeresponsetraining.net

That said, at least having that abstract knowledge is better than being in total ignorance of the subject.

The other half of the equation is what is typically called "shooting from retention." Here, the primary problem is that it has to be taught and performed safely, which itself brings up a litany of considerations. Secondarily but VERY importantly - and this is something that I've only relatively recently become enlightened of - shooters should realize that shooting from retention needs to happen at a greater distance than in the picture that we've painted in our minds thanks to static range drills that mimic this:


^ It's not that it's wrong (far from it: this is definitely something that all of us as defensive shooters should be working towards), but rather, the shooter needs to understand that shooting "from retention" needs to be thought of as something that needs to happen at most "social" distances, for the average law-abiding citizen, in the context of real-world interactions:

www.thearmorylife.com

Self Defense & Combat Arts

I've have been training in Kali also known as Arnis or Escrima and another art, Pencak Silat for many years. Both these arts have a heavy emphasis on bladed combat and empty hands techniques. Does anybody else train in a type of defensive art or combat art to supplement their firearm skills...
www.thearmorylife.com www.thearmorylife.com

^ As I wrote there, thanks to Joe Weyer, my current strong belief is that the draw stroke for concealed-carriers need to have retention built-in, and that, what's more, being able to shoot accurately (OPOTA target center-high-chest scoring oval: https://shop.actiontarget.com/content/opota-rqt2-ohio-opota-qualification-target-version-2.asp) from-retention all the way out to a distance of 10+ yards, with a sub-second draw-to-first shot timing, is a skill to really strive for.

I think that especially in the manner that many of us think of the stereotypical legal concealed-carry citizen's defensive gunfight as being a "3/3/3" affair, I believe that we should be looking at retention as a starting point more than either a discrete skill or as a component of the entangled fight.
 
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TEXASforLIFE said:
Just like the movie with Sandra Bullock about the beauty pageant, just remember too S.I.N.G.! Solarplex, Instep, Nose and Groin! Could work for some?
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I've found instep doesn't work that well on a guy who has an adrenaline rush going. Groin isn't sure fire either. I took a hard shot to the pills during a bout and I didn't go down. I also landed a knee to a guy's groin when we clinched on the ropes (I was going for his abdomen and missed) and he kept coming. In my experience the nose is a good spot. Hammering the throat works well to slow someone down. Elbows to the face are great. Generally straight punches to the head are risky; I have an impacted metatarsal on my right hand on my right hand from that and I was wearing gloves. Avoid kicks above the thighs and avoid them all together if you don't know how to throw a good one.
 
benstt said:
I've found instep doesn't work that well on a guy who has an adrenaline rush going. Groin isn't sure fire either. I took a hard shot to the pills during a bout and I didn't go down. I also landed a knee to a guy's groin when we clinched on the ropes (I was going for his abdomen and missed) and he kept coming. In my experience the nose is a good spot. Hammering the throat works well to slow someone down. Elbows to the face are great. Generally straight punches to the head are risky; I have an impacted metatarsal on my right hand on my right hand from that and I was wearing gloves. Avoid kicks above the thighs and avoid them all together if you don't know how to throw a good one.
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A stiff/rigid hand too the back of the neck works will. I have done it a few times and it throws off their balance and they drop!
 
I don't train for someone grabbing my firearm because it is pretty much always concealed unless I'm in the woods which I keep it in a retention holster. The best way I feel to train keeping your firearm away from the baddie is to get some martial arts experience dealing with close contact such as jujitsu because otherwise instinct takes over and as much as most people think they will become the Hulk just because they are angry and will smash the bad guy, a lack of real experience fighting or training for a fight will set you up for failure. Keeping a back up knife is always a good option. I carry a Kabar TDI knife for a back up. The TDI is a small fixed blade that draws from a friction fit holster. A fixed blade is much easier to put into action in a struggle then a locking blade.
 
Don't set yourself up for false hope that your going to be Bruce Lee when SHTF without training like Bruce Lee. Remember the criminal usually makes the first move and is looking for a target of opportunity. That opportunity is usually you being smaller, unsuspecting, or overwhelmed by greater numbers. Thinking you will pull off some Matrix moves you planned in your head will only get you killed and most people gas out in a struggle within 30 seconds.
 
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10mmLife said:
Don't set yourself up for false hope that your going to be Bruce Lee when SHTF without training like Bruce Lee. Remember the criminal usually makes the first move and is looking for a target of opportunity. That opportunity is usually is you being smaller, unsuspecting, or overwhelmed by greater numbers. Thinking you will pull off some Matrix moves you planned in your head will only get you killed and most people gas out in a struggle within 30 seconds.
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^ This is worth reiterating.

And for those who refuse to believe it - thinking that they'll "rise to the challenge" - all that they need to do to slap themselves with a dose of harsh reality is to look at the various body/dash-cam, CCTV and other surveillance videos of physical engagements between the police and suspects being arrested.

If a technique has not been mastered, it will more than likely -not- come about when under stress. And this is doubly the case when you're physically exhausted and spent.

While there certainly have been events where folks have risen to the challenge and come out on top, it's wise to remember that those are the exceptions. Hope is not a good plan.
 
TSiWRX said:
^ This is worth reiterating.

And for those who refuse to believe it - thinking that they'll "rise to the challenge" - all that they need to do to slap themselves with a dose of harsh reality is to look at the various body/dash-cam, CCTV and other surveillance videos of physical engagements between the police and suspects being arrested.

If a technique has not been mastered, it will more than likely -not- come about when under stress. And this is doubly the case when you're physically exhausted and spent.

While there certainly have been events where folks have risen to the challenge and come out on top, it's wise to remember that those are the exceptions. Hope is not a good plan.
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Awesome breakdown as usual TSiWRX!

I've been in a few bad altercations myself growing up in a rough city and I've seen some pretty foul things happen. I've been witness to the aftermath of gang fights with people getting shot, stabbed and killed on my street. I'm no stranger to violence nor am I an expert on the subject but I do have a decent amount of experience dealing with it.
 
Most definitely. I spent 10 years learning hand-to-hand and it all went out the window the last time I got into an altercation. All the fancy stuff went away and it came back to the boxing that is/was just second nature by that point. I'm sure any preconceived notions I have about being under fire would go away in the moment because I don't have thousands of hours in realistic training.
 
benstt said:
I'm sure any preconceived notions I have about being under fire would go away in the moment because I don't have thousands of hours in realistic training.
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^ Truthfully, I think that's going to be my problem, too.

But then I think about this quote from Clint Smith - "Most gunfights are won by mediocre shooting. We train to magnificence so that we can fall to mediocrity."

I'll stay on the training train as long as I can, and there's also always other areas in which I can improve myself that will help me stay in the fight and survive its consequences. :)
 
I think it's imperative to train weapon retention equally to draw and accuracy. So you carry concealed, most of us do. That means nothing in an altercation where your weapon can be exposed. And the other party feels you may use it so they go for your weapon. And or during your altercation you end up on the ground, your weapon happens to fall out of the holster. Weapon retention in my opinion is something I will always continue to practice to hopefully render the results of my survival in my favor.
 
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