Shooting the P365xl left
- Thread starter Sld1959
- Start date
youngolddude
Professional
Try your weak hand and see if they are similarly placed. There's a diagram somewhere out there that shows what shots in each quadrant means for your shooting hold or trigger. You could also have a buddy shoot it to see if same. Bottom line, guns should be adjusted for the owner.
Sld1959
Hellcat
My apologies, I should have given more information. I am left handed and left eye dominant but shoot primarily right handed as I was taught. I have been working on changing that the past year or so.
My wife however is left handed and left eye dominant and shoots left handed. So for common weapons we need to find a nice middle ground .
And for the time being this will be a common weapon as my wife learns to shoot a pistol as opposed to her revolver. If she wants, eventually we will pick up another for her.
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TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
Aim just a little more too the right and forget about exact aim because you know where it will end up!
Sld1959
Hellcat
Dang I loved Get Smart.
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
Finger placement on the trigger also!
Absolutely
KillerFord1977
SAINT
I consistently shoot low left due to my squeezing too hard with my two lower fingers on the strong hand grip. (pinky and next lower finger)
Try relaxing the 2 bottoms fingers so not as to be a “death grip”.
See below on target diagram where it says “tightening fingers”
youngolddude
Professional
Let the wife shoot it and if she has similar results, adjust your sights. I don't like to adjust my sight picture to place shots where I want, especially when in a hurry or stressed. There can be more involved than sights, grip and trigger. You may also find ammo hits differently, both in placement and group size.
You could also try to shoot left handed, since that is your dominant eye. I've known a few shooters who clock their gun slightly to allow for other eye dominance. This is not the same as gang banger sideways shooting.
You could also try to shoot left handed, since that is your dominant eye. I've known a few shooters who clock their gun slightly to allow for other eye dominance. This is not the same as gang banger sideways shooting.
youngolddude
Professional
The diagrams that Killer supplied are what I was thinking of. I don't do a 6 o'clock hold, but some do. My POA is hopefully my POI. Some days are better than others. It's great you can shoot with your wife, it's something my wife and I do in CAS. BTW, she beat me this last weekend. 
Heavy Industries
Operator
Thats actually some pretty good shooting at 20 yards 1st time out with a 365 considering what it was designed for. I sure wouldnt wanna be on the other end of it.
I would give it some more rounds as I dont think its the pistol. The platform does take a bit of individual mastery and from what I see your right there. One thing I have found that works great is you and your wife record each other shooting from different angles. Go back and watch it in slo-mo, frame by frame etc. I upload mine to the computer with a 40 inch monitor rather than watch it on the phone.
You can learn alot from it and possibly save alot of ammo figuring it out. You can see what the pistol is doing in your hands plain as day this way.
Seeing what your doing for your self vs some one telling you is eye opening.
Also SIG uses a combat sight picture but it looks like you know that, worth a mention tho.
I would give it some more rounds as I dont think its the pistol. The platform does take a bit of individual mastery and from what I see your right there. One thing I have found that works great is you and your wife record each other shooting from different angles. Go back and watch it in slo-mo, frame by frame etc. I upload mine to the computer with a 40 inch monitor rather than watch it on the phone.
You can learn alot from it and possibly save alot of ammo figuring it out. You can see what the pistol is doing in your hands plain as day this way.
Seeing what your doing for your self vs some one telling you is eye opening.
Also SIG uses a combat sight picture but it looks like you know that, worth a mention tho.
Heavy Industries
Operator
You didnt have the target upside down, they obviously printed it wrong!
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
PerspectiveYou didnt have the target upside down, they obviously printed it wrong!
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
What I've done before with grip safety type is I squeeze forward on the grip that makes me pull less on the trigger.
As with @Heavy Industries and others I agree - your the first time on the gun, at 20 yards - that's really not bad at all!!!
That said, we're all always looking to improve, so.....
It's possible that your issue, being a pure left translation, is directly caused by or are associated to any of a combination of the following (listed in no particular order):
I think at this point, unless your first rounds out of the gun were those immediately surrounding the bullseye, @Sld1959 , it would be worth the effort to try to establish zero as @Jfal noted. Do whatever you best prefer, @Sld1959 , in terms of getting a solid and repeatable supported position, and really take your time. I really think that this can potentially pay off, given the performance you showed in the OP. Verifying now can also help you avoid chasing your tail.
Vision certainly could be an issue, and your cross-dominance, given that you're shooting using your right hand, should manifest as shots left of POI *_if_* that's actually what your problem happens to be. Put this one to-rest for the time being by closing either your dominant or non-dominant eye. As with verifying mechanical zero, taking the shortcut on this one, now, helps us avoid having to chase our tail. [ Overall, don't worry too much about this - or the supposed need to change to dominant/dominant shooting. There's plenty of really good shooters out there who shoot cross-dominant with the pistol, including (but not limited to) guys like Larry Vickers and Brian Enos. Unless someone who advises you that you should shoot the pistol with the handedness as eye dominance can actually shoot better than either of these gentlemen, I would politely and respectfully suggest that they simply don't give you any more pistol shooting advice. ] If you are having eye dominance issues, there's things we can do to address this concern, but what we're trying to figure out here is not how to solve it - we're instead trying to pinpoint whether if this is why your shots are manifesting left-of-POA.
And just as a reminder (because I know the giddiness of getting a new gun out on the range for the first time!
), you did establish natural-POA during this, right? I ask this because I am wondering if you observed your shots "walking" farther and farther off the bull as you take subsequent shots...are you losing your NPOA as you go?
Indexing is the last thing I'd like to bring up at this point, but given that it's a new gun to you, and given how consistently you're putting shots to the left, I'm wondering if this isn't potentially the root-cause of your POA/POI discrepancy? See if correcting your index doesn't bring you back onto the bull.
The following Trigger Time TV segments show John "Shrek" McPhee's take on the canonical '"diagnostic pie chart" (which, while useful, needs to have their history and purpose explained - https://pistol-training.com/archives/292 <----- excellent article by the late ToddG, and https://aegisacademy.com/blogs/test-blog-post/pistol-correction-chart ; in both cases, unless you are shooting slow-fire , single-handed bullseye style at the 25 [or greater], understand that this type of target/chart is of very limited value) -
And the index:
The other possibilities include increasing your support hand grip firmness and possibly getting more finger on the trigger.
Towards the latter, here's Pat McNamara's take on trigger finger placement -
....and a good explanation video thereof -
It's possible that in order to achieve that all-defining "flat finish" (i.e. accomplishing the trigger path without disturbance of the sight package , per Rob Leatham's "Why Aiming is Useless" video - https://sofrep.com/gear/why-aiming-is-useless-rob-leathams-3-secrets-to-great-shooting/ ), you may well need to have your trigger finger interact with the trigger of this particular gun in a noticeably different manner, either versus the dogmatic ideal "middle of the distal phalanx"/"meat of the pad," or versus how you may interact with the trigger of another firearm.
That said, we're all always looking to improve, so.....
It's possible that your issue, being a pure left translation, is directly caused by or are associated to any of a combination of the following (listed in no particular order):
- vision
- indexing
- natural-point-of-aim
- mechanical (i.e. gun)
I think at this point, unless your first rounds out of the gun were those immediately surrounding the bullseye, @Sld1959 , it would be worth the effort to try to establish zero as @Jfal noted. Do whatever you best prefer, @Sld1959 , in terms of getting a solid and repeatable supported position, and really take your time. I really think that this can potentially pay off, given the performance you showed in the OP. Verifying now can also help you avoid chasing your tail.
Vision certainly could be an issue, and your cross-dominance, given that you're shooting using your right hand, should manifest as shots left of POI *_if_* that's actually what your problem happens to be. Put this one to-rest for the time being by closing either your dominant or non-dominant eye. As with verifying mechanical zero, taking the shortcut on this one, now, helps us avoid having to chase our tail. [ Overall, don't worry too much about this - or the supposed need to change to dominant/dominant shooting. There's plenty of really good shooters out there who shoot cross-dominant with the pistol, including (but not limited to) guys like Larry Vickers and Brian Enos. Unless someone who advises you that you should shoot the pistol with the handedness as eye dominance can actually shoot better than either of these gentlemen, I would politely and respectfully suggest that they simply don't give you any more pistol shooting advice.
] If you are having eye dominance issues, there's things we can do to address this concern, but what we're trying to figure out here is not how to solve it - we're instead trying to pinpoint whether if this is why your shots are manifesting left-of-POA. And just as a reminder (because I know the giddiness of getting a new gun out on the range for the first time!
), you did establish natural-POA during this, right? I ask this because I am wondering if you observed your shots "walking" farther and farther off the bull as you take subsequent shots...are you losing your NPOA as you go?Indexing is the last thing I'd like to bring up at this point, but given that it's a new gun to you, and given how consistently you're putting shots to the left, I'm wondering if this isn't potentially the root-cause of your POA/POI discrepancy? See if correcting your index doesn't bring you back onto the bull.
The following Trigger Time TV segments show John "Shrek" McPhee's take on the canonical '"diagnostic pie chart" (which, while useful, needs to have their history and purpose explained - https://pistol-training.com/archives/292 <----- excellent article by the late ToddG, and https://aegisacademy.com/blogs/test-blog-post/pistol-correction-chart ; in both cases, unless you are shooting slow-fire , single-handed bullseye style at the 25 [or greater], understand that this type of target/chart is of very limited value) -
And the index:
The other possibilities include increasing your support hand grip firmness and possibly getting more finger on the trigger.
Towards the latter, here's Pat McNamara's take on trigger finger placement -
Gunfighter Moment - Pat McNamara | Soldier Systems Daily
The king daddy of all marksmanship fundamentals is Trigger Control. I do not consider this debatable. Partially due to the fact that I cannot see my front s ...
soldiersystems.net
....and a good explanation video thereof -
It's possible that in order to achieve that all-defining "flat finish" (i.e. accomplishing the trigger path without disturbance of the sight package , per Rob Leatham's "Why Aiming is Useless" video - https://sofrep.com/gear/why-aiming-is-useless-rob-leathams-3-secrets-to-great-shooting/ ), you may well need to have your trigger finger interact with the trigger of this particular gun in a noticeably different manner, either versus the dogmatic ideal "middle of the distal phalanx"/"meat of the pad," or versus how you may interact with the trigger of another firearm.
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KillerFord1977
SAINT
InformativeAs with @Heavy Industries and others I agree - your the first time on the gun, at 20 yards - that's really not bad at all!!!
That said, we're all always looking to improve, so.....
It's possible that your issue, being a pure left translation, is directly caused by or are associated to any of a combination of the following (listed in no particular order):
I like to approach things by shaving down the variables, and I like to begin with the easiest to attack, first.
- vision
- indexing
- natural-point-of-aim
- mechanical (i.e. gun)
I think at this point, unless your first rounds out of the gun were those immediately surrounding the bullseye, @Sld1959 , it would be worth the effort to try to establish zero as @Jfal noted. Do whatever you best prefer, @Sld1959 , in terms of getting a solid and repeatable supported position, and really take your time. I really think that this can potentially pay off, given the performance you showed in the OP. Verifying now can also help you avoid chasing your tail.
Vision certainly could be an issue, and your cross-dominance, given that you're shooting using your right hand, should manifest as shots left of POI. Put this one to-rest for the time being by closing either your dominant or non-dominant eye. As with verifying mechanical zero, taking the shortcut on this one, now, helps us avoid having to chase our tail. [ Overall, don't worry too much about this - or the supposed need to change to dominant/dominant shooting. There's plenty of really good shooters out there who shoot cross-dominant with the pistol, including but not limited to guys like Larry Vickers and Brian Enos. Unless someone who advises you you should shoot the pistol with the same eye dominance can actually shoot better than either of these gentlemen, I would politely and respectfully suggest that they simply don't give you any more pistol shooting advice.
And just as a reminder (because I know the giddiness of getting a new gun out on the range for the first time!
Indexing is the last thing I'd like to bring up at this point, but given that it's a new gun to you, and given how consistently you're putting shots to the left, I'm wondering if this isn't potentially the root-cause of your POA/POI discrepancy? See if correcting your index doesn't bring you back onto the bull.
The following Trigger Time TV segments show John "Shrek" McPhee's take on the canonical '"diagnostic pie chart" (which, while useful, needs to have their history and purpose explained - https://pistol-training.com/archives/292 <----- excellent article by the late ToddG, and https://aegisacademy.com/blogs/test-blog-post/pistol-correction-chart ; in both cases, unless you are shooting slow-fire , single-handed bullseye style at the 25 [or greater], understand that this type of target/chart is of very limited value) -
And the index:
The other possibilities include increasing your support hand grip firmness and possibly getting more finger on the trigger.
Towards the latter, here's Pat McNamara's take on trigger finger placement -
Gunfighter Moment - Pat McNamara | Soldier Systems Daily
The king daddy of all marksmanship fundamentals is Trigger Control. I do not consider this debatable. Partially due to the fact that I cannot see my front s ...soldiersystems.net
....and a good explanation video thereof -
It's possible that in order to achieve that all-defining "flat finish" (i.e. accomplishing the trigger path without disturbance of the sight package , per Rob Leatham's "Why Aiming is Useless" video - https://sofrep.com/gear/why-aiming-is-useless-rob-leathams-3-secrets-to-great-shooting/ ), you may well need to have your trigger finger interact with the trigger of this particular gun in a noticeably different manner, either versus the dogmatic ideal "middle of the distal phalanx"/"meat of the pad," or versus how you may interact with the trigger of another firearm.
But is that post priming me to go read a 1000 page novel
Joke .. just a joke
Good stuff in the post