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Should training be mandatory? Answer: No!

I'm pretty sure the gun community at large, including the NRA and NRA instructors, jumped out in front of it over the course of last summer when millions of Americans became first time gun owners.

Like I asked in the last 4 of these threads, can you show me some stats that show this being a problem ? Irrational fear, or should I say, unfounded fear, is no reason for you to advocate trampling on my rights. Can you point to one single time when 2A supporters compromised with anti-gun advocates and it satisfied them ? Frankly, the constitution says I don't need to compromise with them. And anyone who thinks giving the government another rule or law, particularly one that ONLY AFFECTS LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS, is a good idea, needs their head examined.
There are plenty of mental health professionals available if you are in need. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away. Statistical analysis will prove me correct, even without a concerted effort to report such incidents. And I'm not trying to trample upon your rights, I'm trying to prevent a circumstance from developing that can be used to attack the 2A. There is a saying - "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. (Benjamin Franklin) From my perspective, the 'irrational or unfounded fear' is being demonstrated by your insistence that a safety training requirement will be used to restrict 2A rights. A GUN OWNER SAFELY CARRYING/LEGALLY USING HIS FIREARM AFFECTS HIM AND THE PUBLIC.
 

jumpinjoe

Professional
Ranger715 said: "Until then, just as I wish to be trusted, I will trust my fellow citizens to self-govern, understanding that some will fail. That is the cost of liberty."

Guys and gals, just let me say it cain't be said no better 'n' that. (y)(y)(y)
 
The manner that "maintains safety for everyone" is to vigilantly defend against infringements against our right of self defense. We have considered the issue. That's why we reject mandatory training. You are insisting on a solution to a non-existent problem, and an open door to serious infringement. No one is safer for that.

Tell you what...I'll support mandatory training when it is coupled with mandatory gun ownership. Until then, just as I wish to be trusted, I will trust my fellow citizens to self-govern, understanding that some will fail. That is the cost of liberty.
You are ignoring a problem because you fear the solution might be used to infringe 2A rights. So you're willing to put American citizens in increased danger just to protect your right to keep and bear arms. A right that will likely not be restricted by a safety training requirement. Don't you think that's a little selfish? I'm pretty sure the ultimate intent of our forefathers for the 2A is to protect the nation by providing the ability to defend the Constitution. Well, a nation is made up of people. The very people who will find themselves in increased danger from untrained gun owners exercising their 2A rights. That danger can be reduced with training.
 

jumpinjoe

Professional
AClinventor said this when quoting Ben Franklin: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Ol' Ben also said this: "Those who surrender an ounce of freedom for even a pound of safety, deserve neither freedom nor safety" Now that's a paraphrase, but pretty danged close to the real words.
 

jumpinjoe

Professional
You are ignoring a problem because you fear the solution might be used to infringe 2A rights. So you're willing to put American citizens in increased danger just to protect your right to keep and bear arms. A right that will likely not be restricted by a safety training requirement. Don't you think that's a little selfish? I'm pretty sure the ultimate intent of our forefathers for the 2A is to protect the nation by providing the ability to defend the Constitution. Well, a nation is made up of people. The very people who will find themselves in increased danger from untrained gun owners exercising their 2A rights. That danger can be reduced with training.
AClinventor, the moment it becomes "required", it has also become an infringement. Apparently not much of one to you, but to others quite a substantial one. You seem to forget, or overlook, the fact that our constitution guarantees our freedoms, not our safety. And the 2nd amendment is for all intents and purposes, one of the most important freedoms we have. It's really not appropriate to list any one right as being more important than any others, but it certainly can be said there is not one any more important than the 2nd.

You said: "That danger can be reduced with training." It can also be said that a frog would not bump his azz everytime he jumped, if only he were required to have wings! (y)(y)(y)
 
Ranger715 said: "Until then, just as I wish to be trusted, I will trust my fellow citizens to self-govern, understanding that some will fail. That is the cost of liberty."

Guys and gals, just let me say it cain't be said no better 'n' that. (y)(y)(y)
Until then, just as I wish to be trusted to obey the rules of the road, I will trust my fellow citizens to obey the rules of the road, understanding that some will fail. That is the cost of self-governance. But wait, that really isn't applicable to this discussion. There is a minimum level of training required to operate an automobile. Something which if operated improperly could result in serious bodily injury or death to both the operator and the public. My bad!
 

jumpinjoe

Professional
And you don't think
Slanted or biased news, that's what Fox News is infamous for. So if you're depending upon Fox News as a source of continuing education, what you're learning will never be in the history books. Further, and further from the truth you will be led. We're seeing today just how dangerous propaganda really is. If the propaganda is promoted long enough it develops it's own momentum. For example, the QAnon phenomenon. Has anyone seen John F. Kennedy? QAnon said he was supposed to show up, from the dead. Talk about twisting people's minds!
And you don't accept that others like CNN, MSNBC, and others are not slanted? Son, with all due respect, you might want to open your eyes and/or grow up a little. This whole world is slanted from somebody's perspective.

Yes, FOX has it's talk shows and opinion shows just like every other network on the air, and just like all the others they are often slanted and/or biased ...... because they are opinions !!!! But those who will look and listen to the actual news shows, will often find they've really been missing something worthwhile and good.

Jus' sayin' !!!(y)(y)(y)
 
AClinventor said this when quoting Ben Franklin: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Ol' Ben also said this: "Those who surrender an ounce of freedom for even a pound of safety, deserve neither freedom nor safety" Now that's a paraphrase, but pretty danged close to the real words.
So you're implying we can't have both? Let's take those ounces of freedom and add it to those pounds of safety so eventually, we can have a ton of common sense. Unless you think we don't deserve it.
 

jumpinjoe

Professional
Until then, just as I wish to be trusted to obey the rules of the road, I will trust my fellow citizens to obey the rules of the road, understanding that some will fail. That is the cost of self-governance. But wait, that really isn't applicable to this discussion. There is a minimum level of training required to operate an automobile. Something which if operated improperly could result in serious bodily injury or death to both the operator and the public. My bad!
AClinventor, you're not bad .... you're simply misguided.

See this is just how easy it is to overlook the reality of the world ...... there is no amendment that guarantees a right to drive a car. In fact that opportunity is provided to us by our government as a privilege once we meet their safety training demands and requirements.

And even at that, it only applies to operating a vehicle on the public roads and hiways. We do have a right to operate them on our own property with neither driver training nor a license.

Jus' sayin'. (y) (y)(y)
 

jumpinjoe

Professional
So you're implying we can't have both? Let's take those ounces of freedom and add it to those pounds of safety so eventually, we can have a ton of common sense. Unless you think we don't deserve it.
So I take it that ol' Ben's quotes are only for when they apply to your perspective, huh? It's Ben's quote itself that says we "can't have both"!!!
 
And you don't think

And you don't accept that others like CNN, MSNBC, and others are not slanted? Son, with all due respect, you might want to open your eyes and/or grow up a little. This whole world is slanted from somebody's perspective.

Yes, FOX has it's talk shows and opinion shows just like every other network on the air, and just like all the others they are often slanted and/or biased ...... because they are opinions !!!! But those who will look and listen to the actual news shows, will often find they've really been missing something worthwhile and good.

Jus' sayin' !!!(y)(y)(y)
Mainstream media, as defined by QAnon fanatics, are not slanted. They simply appear to be slanted by those addicted to conspiracy theories. Listen, all cult members have trouble accepting the truth when first exposed to it. It takes time for the cult member to realize they have been swindled. CNN and MSNBC are actual news shows. Go to Fox News to get your conspiracy fix.
 

jumpinjoe

Professional
Mainstream media, as defined by QAnon fanatics, are not slanted. They simply appear to be slanted by those addicted to conspiracy theories. Listen, all cult members have trouble accepting the truth when first exposed to it. It takes time for the cult member to realize they have been swindled. CNN and MSNBC are actual news shows. Go to Fox News to get your conspiracy fix.
Whew !!!! Again with all due respect ...... we're done here !!! It's not just "cult members" who have a hard time accepting the truth.
 
So I take it that ol' Ben's quotes are only for when they apply to your perspective, huh? It's Ben's quote itself that says we "can't have both"!!!
It was you that wielded ol' Ben's quote to defend your perspective. Your perspective of fear that training will be used to take away your right. That may be borderline paranoid, don't you think?
 
AClinventor, you're not bad .... you're simply misguided.

See this is just how easy it is to overlook the reality of the world ...... there is no amendment that guarantees a right to drive a car. In fact that opportunity is provided to us by our government as a privilege once we meet their safety training demands and requirements.

And even at that, it only applies to operating a vehicle on the public roads and hiways. We do have a right to operate them on our own property with neither driver training nor a license.

Jus' sayin'. (y) (y)(y)
It is easy to overlook reality when you're addicted to fake news. Yep, there is no right to drive a car. You have simply glossed over my intent to convey common sense to you. If there were no training requirement to drive an automobile, would you trust people to self-govern while you're on the road with them?
 

jumpinjoe

Professional
It is easy to overlook reality when you're addicted to fake news. Yep, there is no right to drive a car. You have simply glossed over my intent to convey common sense to you. If there were no training requirement to drive an automobile, would you trust people to self-govern while you're on the road with them?
I'm going to break a rule just this once and respond after saying I was done, just for you, to satisfy the troll ..... yes I would trust them providing operating a vehicle on public roads were a constitutionally guaranteed right. But seeing as how it is a gov't provided privilege though, I'd prefer to at least feel most of them are proficient at operating a vehicle. As an aside, I'm pretty sure there are some, maybe many out on the roads who have never taken advantage of any training and are actually driving without any license. One day you might even realize that.

Oh and just in closing again let me say there's no day in hell you are or ever will be capable of "conveying common sense to me". You really are a funny lot !!!
 

C. Sumpin

Custom
" I'm trying to prevent a circumstance from developing that can be used to attack the 2A."

2A is under attack from all sides already. Government intervention (required training) is not going to help, cuz Government only wants to hinder it. I'm coming down on the side that says Uncle Sammy needs to stay out of things he does not intend to promote, and that is 2A, 1A and many A's.

You can slam FOX all you want but Tucker is the real deal.

CNN & MSNBC "actual news shows"??!! They are Left field Tonic (Kapers Milquetoast) and entertainment. I'm sniffing the malodor of true misguided left falling Socialism and worse here.............

Well, it's a wonder such far out perspectives are interested in Firearms topics, I'll give you that. If ur not a troll as USMCVIETVET was.

As for well instructed state licensed vehicle drivers......DUI's everyday and slaughter of innocents on the highways.

Ur up against it Inventor, luck.
 

papa

Professional
Founding Member
There are many who think Gov't mandated training , to acquire a concealed carry license , is needed to stop private citizens from shooting up everything in sight. I would like a few links to the news articles showing this " shooting up everything and injuring others " to be a problem.

If this is such a problem then there should be many news stories about it happening. Why should it be in the news you say , well how about the fact that only 24 states plus D. C. require a shooting test for qualification to get a carry license. Also remember that Vermont has never issued a carry license so they have no training at all. Have you ever heard any stories about all the bloody streets in Vermont?

What about stories from Indiana , or Washington state?

This hand wringing , mandated training by Gov't decree ranks right up there with all the " people will be shooting each other over parking spaces , when a cop pulls you over for speeding they will pull you out of the car at gun point because you have a gun " and many other asinine thoughts that the anti gunners put forth constantly.

So , I am waiting for links to all the news stories proving mandated training is needed to prevent blood running in the streets of USA.

PS: I do think it would behoove anyone who doesn't know anything or very little about firearms to get training.
 
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