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The CCW Dance

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jmcd

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Greetings all. I just wanted to vent a bit about one of the things that I hope is not going to spread like all of the other legislative action I see here trying to gain traction in other states. I know there has been a lot of chatter on the forum about VA and some other states with what they are trying to enact. Sadly, a lot of that is already in play here.

Now that my son is going to be old enough to get a LTC (license to carry as they call it) You need to take an approved safety course before you can even apply. Supposedly, if you have taken an approved course and you get a permit, you do not need to take it again. Or, if you have had a permit for X amount of years, you are "grandfathered" in. I say supposedly because if you look at various police department websites, some of them say if you have moved into town and you are renewing your permit, you need to supply your latest certification regardless. So much for being grandfathered. Each town is different and each chief is the "licensing authority" so based on their individual policy, or if they are having a bad day, decides your fate. Some towns are known as "green" towns and others are "red" dependent on this. After the course needed is taken, and after an extensive background check, up to 4 months later, you will get a yes or no answer. Within this decision, again dependent on policy or what is going on that day, you could get whatever restriction they see fit to put on it. This can range to target only, to target and hunting, (can't hunt with a pistol or rifle on the eastern side of the state) to work only, to whatever they see fit.

With that said, I have been checking out "schools" for one day and I am already frustrated. Like the laws here being very hard to understand and being all over the place, so are the schools. I am getting pricing from anywhere from $80 to $240 for the state required course. Some offer additional training for "Utah carry" that will give you the certification needed to apply in that state and others. Some say you need to do live firing, others don't. I am looking at the larger schools and trying to stay away from the backyard stuff. There will be travel involved. On a good note, I noticed they have shaved it down to about 4 to 4 and a half hours, but the inconsistencies right off the bat are a bit worrying. I do have an email into my local PD to see if they have recommendations.

They really do want to make it as difficult as possible for the law abiding citizen. This is why I am the one doing all of the legwork for my son. I am not one of these parents that just gives the kids everything, but I don't want him to get discouraged. I will more than likely end up taking the course as well for a refresher. I don't think that could hurt anything other than my wallet and it gives me more time with my son.

I really hope that this sort of thing doesn't become a nation wide phenomena. I am a bit jealous of the folks who live in the "free" states. When I retire, I hope to add to that number.

Just throwing my vent out there. Thanks for listening.
 
Massachusetts. They are fairly strict here. I say fairly because I know other states are worse. Everything I see going on in this state seems to be becoming a national trend. It's concerning to say the least. It's easy to say you will vote these people out, but yet they seem to remain.
 
Yes sir. "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes" uttered by William Prescott kicked off the Battle of Bunker Hill during the Revolutionary War. If you drive through towns like Lexington, you see plenty of minuteman statues and the like and they are rich in history with it. Boston Tea Party? Paul Revere? Somehow, something has been lost in translation.
 
Massachusetts. They are fairly strict here. I say fairly because I know other states are worse. Everything I see going on in this state seems to be becoming a national trend. It's concerning to say the least. It's easy to say you will vote these people out, but yet they seem to remain.


The thing that politicians are best at is keeping their power.

About a decade ago I was very, VERY close to abandoning my home state of Missouri. My first choice was S. Dakota, but I can't convince my wife that -30 isn't really that cold. When she was younger she lived in Dallas and we were not very far off from planning a move to Texas. It may sound silly, but I admit, the main reason for wanting to move was the terrible gun laws. Then a strange thing happened. First we finally got "Shall issue" CCW, then we went constitutional carry. Nowadays Texas gun laws seem bad by comparison.

I guess if you can't or won't move to a free state your only option is to remain politically active and vote for politicians who understand and cherish the US Constitution.
 
@Bassbob you bring up valid points. I would have no problem with and I certainly will look at gun laws if I move out of state. My wife is the driving force behind staying. Unfortunately, as we all age and start to lose loved ones, it becomes less of a need to stay. I am very lucky that the job pays well, so for now, I have to deal with the lunacy. I hope that it wont be a much more widespread problem when moving day comes.
 
@Bassbob you bring up valid points. I would have no problem with and I certainly will look at gun laws if I move out of state. My wife is the driving force behind staying. Unfortunately, as we all age and start to lose loved ones, it becomes less of a need to stay. I am very lucky that the job pays well, so for now, I have to deal with the lunacy. I hope that it wont be a much more widespread problem when moving day comes.


I understand completely. My elderly parents are here and I have a well paying job. it would be hard for me to leave at this point.
 
It sounds like you will have to bite the bullet so to speak, and sign up for a class and hope for the best. I can fully understand the pressure on politicians to "do something!!" about gun violence. Despite the fact that gun violence in our country isn't that much of a concern (but it does get a lot of press). Those of us searching for the truth know better, but unfortunately many people will not put out the effort required to find the truth. And a big part of our country, especially on the east and west coasts, know practically nothing about guns. It is a monumental task to educate those people. Probably "each one teach one" is the best way but a lot of us live in "free states" and our neighbors and friends already know. About all we can do is support those folks and organizations who are trying to change things.

Good luck on finding a good class!
 
Greetings all. I just wanted to vent a bit about one of the things that I hope is not going to spread like all of the other legislative action I see here trying to gain traction in other states. I know there has been a lot of chatter on the forum about VA and some other states with what they are trying to enact. Sadly, a lot of that is already in play here.

Now that my son is going to be old enough to get a LTC (license to carry as they call it) You need to take an approved safety course before you can even apply. Supposedly, if you have taken an approved course and you get a permit, you do not need to take it again. Or, if you have had a permit for X amount of years, you are "grandfathered" in. I say supposedly because if you look at various police department websites, some of them say if you have moved into town and you are renewing your permit, you need to supply your latest certification regardless. So much for being grandfathered. Each town is different and each chief is the "licensing authority" so based on their individual policy, or if they are having a bad day, decides your fate. Some towns are known as "green" towns and others are "red" dependent on this. After the course needed is taken, and after an extensive background check, up to 4 months later, you will get a yes or no answer. Within this decision, again dependent on policy or what is going on that day, you could get whatever restriction they see fit to put on it. This can range to target only, to target and hunting, (can't hunt with a pistol or rifle on the eastern side of the state) to work only, to whatever they see fit.

With that said, I have been checking out "schools" for one day and I am already frustrated. Like the laws here being very hard to understand and being all over the place, so are the schools. I am getting pricing from anywhere from $80 to $240 for the state required course. Some offer additional training for "Utah carry" that will give you the certification needed to apply in that state and others. Some say you need to do live firing, others don't. I am looking at the larger schools and trying to stay away from the backyard stuff. There will be travel involved. On a good note, I noticed they have shaved it down to about 4 to 4 and a half hours, but the inconsistencies right off the bat are a bit worrying. I do have an email into my local PD to see if they have recommendations.

They really do want to make it as difficult as possible for the law abiding citizen. This is why I am the one doing all of the legwork for my son. I am not one of these parents that just gives the kids everything, but I don't want him to get discouraged. I will more than likely end up taking the course as well for a refresher. I don't think that could hurt anything other than my wallet and it gives me more time with my son.

I really hope that this sort of thing doesn't become a nation wide phenomena. I am a bit jealous of the folks who live in the "free" states. When I retire, I hope to add to that number.

Just throwing my vent out there. Thanks for listening.
Wow, sounds like they make it as hard as possible so as to intentionally deter folks. I opted to apply for my license online, where the turnaround time is 15 days. Once I had the notarized form showing I had military training (in lieu of the req'd 8 hr class), I sent that form, a photo of myself, proof of an honorable discharge, and payment of $50, to the state police hq. I sent all of that on a Friday, and the following Monday rec'd an email telling me it was approved, and that my license would be available at the local county sheriff's office within the following week, once I paid a $20 fee to sheriff, and signed a form when I picked it up. All of that was within the 15 day time frame.

We're a "shall issue" state, and it takes 90 days if doing it by mail, and you save $10 by not doing it online. The class courses are 8 hrs long, costs not to exceed $75 iaw with state law, plus the $60 regular fee. License is good for 5 yrs, and the state police send you a rebewal form 120 days prior to expiration. Oh, our state is constitutional carry, but the new dem governor has his sights set on repealing that. Hopefully, the republican majority under him can deter that action until we get another republican govenor.
 
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I live in a may-issue state, which is a pain in the a$$...but it is what it is I suppose. I have my CCW and have no plans to surrender or not-renew it. Ever. If the state decides to change their rules on me...I may look into moving, but I'll cross that bridge if I come to it. And I'm sure like many other people, it will be a hard internal debate - follow the new rules? Or make myself a felon in the eyes of local law, by following our federal Constitution?
 
I have my carry license here in Illinois . At least we are a shall issue state . You have to have a FOID card ( $10.00 ) , take a 16 hour course with a shooting course included. 10 rounds at 5 yards , 10 rounds at 7 yards and 10 rounds at 10 yards. There are exemptions for military service ( 8 hrs counted ) or NRA basics safety course , also 8 hours counted but you still have to take 8 hours of training even with that. Prints ( electronic only ) are supposed to get you a license in 90 days , without prints is supposed to be 120 days. The cost is $150.00 and renewal is also $150.00 for 5 years.

My original application took 104 days to be in my mailbox . However , my renewal took 129 days to get. At least we can still carry legally with expired license if we have submitted our renewal before the current license has expired.

The reason it is taking the ISP so long to issue our licenses or the FOID cards is because our upstanding politicians have swept the funds from the ISP budget ( for the purpose of issuing the licenses ) to be used else where . It is a very long story.

So anyway with all the hrs of training and costs ( $200 - $300 for training and $150 for license ) we have to jump through a lot of hoops to have our 2A rights.
 
I live in a may-issue state, which is a pain in the a$$...but it is what it is I suppose. I have my CCW and have no plans to surrender or not-renew it. Ever. If the state decides to change their rules on me...I may look into moving, but I'll cross that bridge if I come to it. And I'm sure like many other people, it will be a hard internal debate - follow the new rules? Or make myself a felon in the eyes of local law, by following our federal Constitution?
May issue state here as well. After going through the process, it certainly feels like you have "earned it".
 
In Pa., it's shall issue with no classes required. It's done county to county, so each sheriff's department's could differ slightly. In my county, I needed a 2 person referral that resided in county. In my buddy's county south of mine, a 2 person referral that resided in the State. My county sent out post cards with questions (how long did you know me, any problems with me, etc), to the 2 persons I asked to provide a reference. My buddy used me as a reference, I never got a card, and he was approved. I was approved after glowing remarks :rolleyes::sneaky: , from my 2 references & BGC w/photo taken in Sheriffs office plus $20. ($6 for 1st visit with Permit request form that include the 2 references Sheriff would mail cards to, and $14 after cards and BGC was done & approved where photo is also taken on 2nd visit)
After I got my Pa. carry permit, I decided to get the Utah carry permit to carry in more States that didn't recognize Pa. My local range offered the course for $100 given by a NRA certified instructor, Passport sized photo, Photo copy of my Pa carry permit, fingerprints for FBI BGC, and 4 hour class all required for the permit. It was all mailed in plus $35. After the FBI check was done and approved, the card was mailed back to me (took about 3 weeks or so).
A lot of States are putting in restrictions that you must be a resident of the State that you have the permit for. A friend from NJ that got his Utah permit could legal carry in Pa., until the State AG put this restriction in place. Now he can't carry in Pa, Jmcd, I suggest you look at the USCCA reciprocity map to see any other States restrictions before applying for any out of State carry permits (i.e. will Mass. (or any other State you select), recognize your Utah permit if you aren't a resident of Utah?). Also, I don't know if the Mass. courses that says they will give you the "certification" to apply for a Utah permit, also provides the fingerprint card for the FBI BGC which is also required in addition to the 4 hour course given by a notarized Utah recognized certified instructor.
Renewal of permits for me was easier than 1st time applications. In Pa. someone sued the county because the Post Cards mailed to the references allowed any and all to read personal information after the card was filled out. The people bringing the suit won, but I don't know how and if it affected my renewal process. I filled the application online giving my 2 references (now not being required to be residents of the same county), and went to the sheriff's office. He immediately did BGC, took Photo and money, and gave me my new card right then and there. For Utah, a 20 minute renewal gun safety class was required online (you replied you viewed it, since they had no way of knowing if you viewed it or not (I did watch it :))), a copy of my Pa. carry permit, passport sized photo, renewal form, all done & sent online back to them with credit card information for $35 charge. It was approved almost immediately and then card sent back to me within a week.
Note: With the Utah permit (initial and renewal) approval, came a slew of emails from Utah State's government offices thinking I was a resident there. From Governor & nominees sending me "vote for me" emails, to where to caucus, to State officials saying "look at the programs, I initiated", I usually just block them in my email program. Just a warning if you or others apply for a Utah. ;)
Here's an example I just received:

 
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Thanks for sharing @papa. It sounds like you are also in the soup in Illinois. You have us on some things cost wise and hours of training. Is that training for 5 years or is it one and done?
The original training is good for the 5 year license but I left out one part ..... you have to take a 3 hour renewal course at around $50.00 plus another shooting test like original.

A bill has been submitted by one of our Northern blood suckers.... err politicians that would increase the cost of the FOID from $10 for 10 years to $50 for 5 years , plus finger prints , and would make us go to an FFL dealer for a person to person sale. Now we can call in a persons FOID number , get a confirmation number , wait the 72 hours , and then complete the sale. We would still have to wait the 72 hours going through FFL. This bill SB 1996 Fix the FOID act was passed in the House and still needs to be called in the Senate. If you want to see stupid , go read the bill.

On top of that , they have put a little over half of our FFL dealers out of business now since they decided the Federal Firearm license wasn't good enough and that they needed an Illinois firearm license on top of the FFL , along with a bunch of hoops for the dealers to jump through and much increased costs. SB337 was signed into law 1/17/19 . This is an even better look at stupid for anyonne who can stand to read such.
 
Yes sir. "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes" uttered by William Prescott kicked off the Battle of Bunker Hill during the Revolutionary War. If you drive through towns like Lexington, you see plenty of minuteman statues and the like and they are rich in history with it. Boston Tea Party? Paul Revere? Somehow, something has been lost in translation.
It's sad that Towns like Lexington & Concord are now liberal strongholds.
 
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