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The Threat Zone: Will Your Gun Lose This Fight?

Invisibleflash

Operator
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Good article!

No one is perfect. We just got to do the best we can. If you got a tact light, 1200 lumens, blind em then shoot em.

Take a pelvic shot if you think they got a vest and work your way up from there. Maybe that is good technique anyway. Always figure someone has a vest in this day and age. BUT, what is the first thing people go to shoot? Center mass. Hard to change old habits.



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But this is all academic and every situation changes. Plus your city and state has different laws. In some locals the criminal has more rights than you. And that is not hyperbole or a joke. If you are in those locals...you may better served to practice track than shooting. For if you shoot...you are pretty much done for.

It is hard hitting something moving. If they get on top of you, kick them away to try and block while you draw and shoot. Be careful you don't shoot your foot or hand!

You don't shoot to drop with one shot, you shoot to slow them down so you can shoot some more. I mean it is nice to drop with one shot, but it is not practical to think it will happen with a moving person.

I told you this before...

I prefer nylon jacketed ball ammo. Tremendous penetration. Can't get nylon? Go with ball. The goal is not to mushroom, the goal is to pierce the maximum amount of penetration through the organs and central nervous system. It won't go through a vest, but it may pierce 2 lungs if shot from the side. If you shoot in one ear, hopefully it comes out of the other ear.

Forget 2 taps. Use the old Darby's Ranger's technique of shooting them to the ground. ( If they are attacking you with deadly force.) 3 to 4 shots min. I mean you are carrying 2 Hellcats...right? You got +/- 30 rounds. Don't be afraid to use them.

I posted some anatomy photos at a survival forum. But, being run by wusses...they removed it.

Study anatomy for shot placement.



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Only other thing...Springfield make an extended mag for the 9mm Hellcat.
20 - 22 rounds is good to start with. Does not have to be crazy long. Just a little extra.
 
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ajz1966

Alpha
This article hits home for me. I've often thought about the decision of when to shoot or brandish. When I became a father and I'm out with my daughter, I thought about how my safe zone now extends to 25 yards as one can't risk being incapacitated and leaving your child to fend for themselves. I often go back to a time on a bike ride that a group of 2 high school boys and 2 girls threw a plastic bottle at me while I rode past. It was a no threat situation. I rode on. Just some punks. But, it got me to thinking, what if they turned and menacingly walked toward me? What if I didn't have an escape route? They were unarmed but 4 kids can do a lot of damage punching and kicking. What if you go down and your CCW piece falls out and now they are armed with your gun? In the aftermath, the news and they're lawyer will make you a villain going after some kids. All your training, all these news articles, everything has a moment to flash through your mind during the first moments of a slowly unfolding threat. As the author says, there is no clear cut rule. Do your best to establish imminent harm and it wouldn't hurt to get some CCW insurance to win the fight after the fight.
 

Sld1959

Professional
Good article. However, your gun won't lose, but you might. Any more than your shoes will lose a race.

We should avoid giving inanimate objects human characteristics and concepts after all its used against us all the time.

Gun violence... never seen a violent gun in my life, they might as well say golf club violence, personally seen that more times than "gun violence". But that's how they view it to get people against firearms.
 

Colt45

Operator
#1 Stay alert it's the first rule of prevention the predator often scouts his victim and choses time and place.
Try to leave if possible
Too many variables to cover all possibilities ie: I am at a restaurant with my wife and kids and crazy comes in acting looney holding/waving a I knife can't leave my family-lots of people around-what to do.
I train several times a year with a pro, practice your skills continually on your own.
You can't win every situation but practicing ups your chances. Remember to get off the X!
You don't know how you will respond in a life threating event so practice for it you are not a trained professional.
Join USCCA for their resources and legal help. Get your CCW, train with a pro and pray you never have to engage
but if you shoot-shoot until they are down and do not approach don't assume they are finished just because they seem unconscious or dead and call 911 and keep them covered.
 
#1 Stay alert it's the first rule of prevention the predator often scouts his victim and choses time and place.
Try to leave if possible
Too many variables to cover all possibilities ie: I am at a restaurant with my wife and kids and crazy comes in acting looney holding/waving a I knife can't leave my family-lots of people around-what to do.
I train several times a year with a pro, practice your skills continually on your own.
You can't win every situation but practicing ups your chances. Remember to get off the X!
You don't know how you will respond in a life threating event so practice for it you are not a trained professional.
Join USCCA for their resources and legal help. Get your CCW, train with a pro and pray you never have to engage
but if you shoot-shoot until they are down and do not approach don't assume they are finished just because they seem unconscious or dead and call 911 and keep them covered.
Most of what you said is spot on however unless you want to be the next individual shot NEVER be standing over anyone with your gun drawn when police arrive, (end the threat and holster your weapon) and re-conceal, also if possible render aid to your abilities.
Also in your scenario you mentioned your in a restaurant? Personally I would not ever unholster my gun to defend against someone with just a knife, if you had been using good situational awareness then using a heavy chair to block an attack would be enough and hope you get help from other patrons.
My opinion.
 

Colt45

Operator
Most of what you said is spot on however unless you want to be the next individual shot NEVER be standing over anyone with your gun drawn when police arrive, (end the threat and holster your weapon) and re-conceal, also if possible render aid to your abilities.
Also in your scenario you mentioned your in a restaurant? Personally I would not ever unholster my gun to defend against someone with just a knife, if you had been using good situational awareness then using a heavy chair to block an attack would be enough and hope you get help from other patrons.
My opinion.
You make good points but I never suggested drawing at that moment in a restaurant merely pointing out different scenarios require different solutions and you cannot reliably train for all of them yet still must make instant life and death decisions. If he comes at me and or my family I'm stopping him with a bullet not a chair. As for covering the assailant what I meant was don't assume he's out of the fight don't turn your back on him. I certainly would not stand over or approach and you'll know when it's appropriate to holster and you'll hear the police before they arrive. Thanks for the clarification
It's a situation I pray none of us are ever in.
 

Ranger715

Elite
Most of what you said is spot on however unless you want to be the next individual shot NEVER be standing over anyone with your gun drawn when police arrive, (end the threat and holster your weapon) and re-conceal, also if possible render aid to your abilities.
Also in your scenario you mentioned your in a restaurant? Personally I would not ever unholster my gun to defend against someone with just a knife, if you had been using good situational awareness then using a heavy chair to block an attack would be enough and hope you get help from other patrons.
My opinion.
I'm surprised you don't seem to consider a knife to be dangerous enough to draw your gun for. It absolutely is. If the assailant is menacing you and is in reasonable proximity, knife in hand, you are in deadly danger, chair or no chair. It's time to shoot. Every cop in the country is trained to do just that.

Please, never say "just a knife." Any blade can be a vicious, savage weapon easily capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death. Any court in the land will recognize this, and if they don't it is easily demonstrated. Just approach the judge with it in hand and see what the bailiff does! Kidding.

As for other patrons, we have seen abundant evidence that your hope is most likely in vain. Besides, if you're not willing to engage, then why should they be?

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But I hope, for your sake, that you will reconsider this scenario.
 
I'm surprised you don't seem to consider a knife to be dangerous enough to draw your gun for. It absolutely is. If the assailant is menacing you and is in reasonable proximity, knife in hand, you are in deadly danger, chair or no chair. It's time to shoot. Every cop in the country is trained to do just that.

Please, never say "just a knife." Any blade can be a vicious, savage weapon easily capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death. Any court in the land will recognize this, and if they don't it is easily demonstrated. Just approach the judge with it in hand and see what the bailiff does! Kidding.

As for other patrons, we have seen abundant evidence that your hope is most likely in vain. Besides, if you're not willing to engage, then why should they be?

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But I hope, for your sake, that you will reconsider this scenario.
In your scenario you said
“guy with knife in restaurant” so first wherever I eat even at home my back is never to the door, 2nd pulling a gun and shooting in a restaurant is a recipe,
(no pun intended) for disaster.
You fight your fight your way I’ll fight mine my way.
 

Annihilator

SAINT
Founding Member
Most of what you said is spot on however unless you want to be the next individual shot NEVER be standing over anyone with your gun drawn when police arrive, (end the threat and holster your weapon) and re-conceal, also if possible render aid to your abilities.
Also in your scenario you mentioned your in a restaurant? Personally I would not ever unholster my gun to defend against someone with just a knife, if you had been using good situational awareness then using a heavy chair to block an attack would be enough and hope you get help from other patrons.
My opinion.
Me, no matter the threat, knife, club anything, if I fear for my life or my families life, no matter what the perp has got and is coming my way, my gun will always be unholstered, whether I use it or not will deeply depend on how bad the situation gets.
 
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