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Frangible bullets for EDC?

I have a good friend that was a Navy SEAL.. Years ago on our first trip to the range he told me if you want to be sure they are dead shoot them in the head. To be sure shoot them again. So many great bullets on the market but the very best one is the one you can put on target. And that doesnt always mean a head shot. I love wheelguns as they are not very picky about bullet type. But with semi you need to be sure what you carry functions and cycles well and you can hit your target.
 
I don't know... If you read the article, the author uses frangible bullets to hunt and saw the damage done to animal organs.

From badgers to hogs to deer, handgun-caliber frangibles have created consistently broad, deep and permanent wound cavities. Unlike the slicing through-and-through wounds typically seen in the flesh and hearts of animals shot with hollow-points, soft-points or any other hunting round, these wounds punch a hole in muscles and utterly shred hearts. There is often an entrance wound but no exit. And, yes, these are single-shot kills. These bullets work.
As for "nobody uses them" of "FBI knows better" arguments, she also says:
One of the less harmful false notions floating around the internet is that no law enforcement agencies use frangible ammunition. This is false. The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, United States Coast Guard and FBI, among others, use Sinterfire. There have also been discussions between Texas and Sinterfire regarding the use of the company’s disintegrating bullets for the state’s School Marshal Program. Frangibles are ideal for self-defense in close quarters, such as in schools, hospitals and, yes, your home.
 
As @SoNic excerpted from the article, I'm willing to change my views, but not until those ballistics experts (remember that debate about trusting the experts? https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/can-we-trust-the-experts.8849/ ;) ) at the FBI and the like actually implements modern frangibles as their chosen duty cartridges.

I'm more than willing to concede that the author's personal experience with modern frangibles greatly exceeds my own, and that, moreover, her observations of the cartridge/bullet's performance in pest-control and small-game hunting makes for compelling data for her arguments, but I have yet to see any data/releases from such sources that is geared towards actual duty use, versus practice/training or T&E (i.e. FLETC - https://sinterfire.com/wp-content/u..._2014_FINAL_508-Lead-to-Green.pdf?iframe=true ; USCG, etc. - https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/federal-6-8-spc-contract-for-saudi-arabia/12757/31 ; meanwhile, IIRC, the Triton RHHP bullet was dropped from contention for the FAMS due to other-than-cabin-shootout considerations [as well as the fact that a bullet-hole in a plane doesn't produce the Hollywood-imagined depressurization scenario]).
 
I tested Glasser blues and silvers quite a number of years ago. While I was certain they could wreck someone's day, I was not sure enough that, the someone's day might not be mine. I found huge damage, sometimes, depending...
 
What really does happen? Video? I ask only because I wondered how much truth there was to that story line.





I have yet to find a video, though, but I, too, would love to see that kind of testing! :)
 
So--frangibles.

First off, there are two types--the defensive frangible bullets (Glaser, MagSafe, et al) and target frangible. The difference being that the target rounds are designed pretty much exclusively to be used for shooting steel at close range; they're a sintered (powdered metal that has been treated with just enough heat to make it stick together) copper alloy that, when it hits something harder than itself--like steel--it reverts to powder. Caveat being that things like flesh, sheetrock, and other common substances are NOT harder than the bullet, and it'll just act like a FMJ.

Defensive frangible? Usually a thin-skinned copper jacket filled with smaller shot; Glaser, I think, uses #12 or #6 (blue or silver tip), Magsafe uses slightly larger (BB?--not sure if Magsafe is even made anymore, though). They tend to make very graphic, but very shallow wounds that, barring a perfect squared up shot, likely won't penetrate to vital organs. I tend to agree with (iirc) the late Col. Cooper's assessment of the rounds that "Sure, they'd be fatal--the receiver will expire several days later of peritonitis...". I also tested the Glaser rounds (blue, iirc) back when I lived in an apartment; the .357 magnum version, using a 4" GP100. Testing medium was two sheets of drywall with a 3.5" space between them. All rounds fully penetrated both sheets with absolutely no signs of fragmentation. They also shot incredibly low--4"-6" at 20 feet.

The new ARX rounds don't impress me either: tested some when they came out under Ruger's banner--the .380 load. Out of my Sphynx AT at 10 feet, the rounds went clean through a 1 gallon water jug, through two sheets of spaced sheetrock, and buried themselves several feet in hard dirt (deeper than a cleaning rod). So much for "frangible", there.

But--this is just in regards to handguns. Rifles are a whole 'nother story.

Rifles have the serious velocity to make frangible act they way they should; and by frangible, I'm referring to "varmint rounds" such as the Nosler Ballistic Tip (NBT), Hornady V-Max, Winchester Ballistic Silvertip...etc. These are devastating in squishy stuff, but will come apart FAST when they hit much anything else--such as sheetrock. Doing some real life testing in a house that was going to be torn down, we found that out of a 12.5" or longer barrel, a .223 55gr NBT would go through one interior wall, but be stopped in the next wall, interior or exterior. This is pretty darn good. Out of a 20" barrel, it would get through an interior wall and would leave fragments in the next, but wouldn't get through an exterior wall.

Note that it still goes through walls, though. Any round suitable for self defense will...TANSTAAFL.

TL/DR version: good in rifles, bad in handguns. Know the difference between target frangible and varmint rounds.
 
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So--frangibles.

First off, there are two types--the defensive frangible bullets (Glaser, MagSafe, et al) and target frangible. The difference being that the target rounds are designed pretty much exclusively to be used for shooting steel at close range; they're a sintered (powdered metal that has been treated with just enough heat to make it stick together) copper alloy that, when it hits something harder than itself--like steel--it reverts to powder. Caveat being that things like flesh, sheetrock, and other common substances are NOT harder than the bullet, and it'll just act like a FMJ.

Defensive frangible? Usually a thin-skinned copper jacket filled with smaller shot; Glaser, I think, uses #12 or #6 (blue or silver tip), Magsafe uses slightly larger (BB?--not sure if Magsafe is even made anymore, though). They tend to make very graphic, but very shallow wounds that, barring a perfect squared up shot, likely won't penetrate to vital organs. I tend to agree with (iirc) the late Col. Cooper's assessment of the rounds that "Sure, they'd be fatal--the receiver will expire several days later of peritonitis...". I also tested the Glaser rounds (blue, iirc) back when I lived in an apartment; the .357 magnum version, using a 4" GP100. Testing medium was two sheets of drywall with a 3.5" space between them. All rounds fully penetrated both sheets with absolutely no signs of fragmentation. They also shot incredibly low--4"-6" at 20 feet.

The new ARX rounds don't impress me either: tested some when they came out under Ruger's banner--the .380 load. Out of my Sphynx AT at 10 feet, the rounds went clean through a 1 gallon water jug, through two sheets of spaced sheetrock, and buried themselves several feet in hard dirt (deeper than a cleaning rod). So much for "frangible", there.

But--this is just in regards to handguns. Rifles are a whole 'nother story.

Rifles have the serious velocity to make frangible act they way they should; and by frangible, I'm referring to "varmint rounds" such as the Nosler Ballistic Tip (NBT), Hornady V-Max, Winchester Ballistic Silvertip...etc. These are devastating in squishy stuff, but will come apart FAST when they hit much anything else--such as sheetrock. Doing some real life testing in a house that was going to be torn down, we found that out of a 12.5" or longer barrel, a .223 55gr NBT would go through one interior wall, but be stopped in the next wall, interior or exterior. This is pretty darn good. Out of a 20" barrel, it would get through an interior wall and would leave fragments in the next, but wouldn't get through an exterior wall.

Note that it still goes through walls, though. Any round suitable for self defense will...TANSTAAFL.

TL/DR version: good in rifles, bad in handguns. Know the difference between target frangible and varmint rounds.
Very informative thanks
 
So--frangibles.

First off, there are two types--the defensive frangible bullets (Glaser, MagSafe, et al) and target frangible.

^ I learned something today! Thank you, @HansGruber . (y)

So, bear with me, here....

Is it just me, or does it seem that the author of the USCAA article referenced in the OP may be conflating the two, given what she cited of the use of the Sinterfire cartridges with the various alphabet-name governmental entities?
 
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