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Ayoob: Was the 10mm Destined to Fail?

Not necessarily Destined to Fail , as " Destined to Become a Niche Cartridge, Primarily for Hunters , Outdoorsmen , and Serious Ballistic Geeks ( said in a good way ) " .

Pretty much what ECS686 said above about the physical size of the gun being at least as much factor as the Recoil .

So when the .40S&W came about ( initially) duplicating FBI Spec 10mm ballistics, in essentially 9mm sized guns , it was the Perfect Storm .
 
Biggfoot44 said:
My take was that Full Power 10mm was basically similar to the 80% -ish loaded Silvertip in .41 Mag .

Which was a * Very Useful Level * , as representing the upper end of " How much power can you have , and still be Plausible for Duty & Defense by reasonably skilled users , and not redicously overpenetrate . " .
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Yea, the original loads back then, especially the Norma loads
 
Love my TRP Operator in 10mm. I think the 1911 frame is a perfect 10mm host.

I can ring steel at over 100 yards with that thing. It's amazing.

175gr Critical Duty is the car carry round, 200gr DGH is the Backcountry round.
 
Talyn said:
I was a very early adopter of the G20 and have never had a problem with it.
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The first handgun I bought was a Glock G-20 Gen-2. Still my favorite pistol!! My favorite revolver is my S&W Model 19.
.357 Mag Combat Magnum. Wonderfull revolver.
But my woods gun is still my G-20 with Lehigh Defense 190 grain solid copper wide flat nose bullets at 1090 fps.
1 in the barrel, 15 in the mag. Confidence in the hand!
 
I actually had a BREN 10 in my hand but it was one of the ones without a magazine. I was tempted because we were assure the mags would be coming. There was a Miami Vice episode where Sonny changes mags and drops the empty. Rumor is/was that Bren 10 fans scoured the location for the magazine.

By todays standards the BREN is a dated design; but only dated like the 1911, Browning Hi Power, and Beretta 92 are dated. A simplified Bren is a viable option (minus features like the switch to SA only) and would make production easier (think CZ75), maybe add a decock option

Im open to 10mm but I think its only useful in the full power version, otherwise why not use 40SW (or 9mm). Glock seems like the EASY button for 10mm, and I do like Glocks but if Im going 10mm, I want a SA/DA (OK I really want a BREN). The closest Ive ever found is the steel version of the EAA Witness. For the life of me I cant figure why CZ hasnt introduced a 10mm in the 75 series. They make a 45acp version, so 10mm seems an easy option???

Id suggest the biggest negative to 10mm as a PD gun is the recoil. The FBI saw scores drop when switching from 357 to 10, making qualification difficult with "small statured agents" (read that as females) Likewise PDs saw scores drop when switching from 9mm to 40. We can blame that on recoil but Id suggest its more a factor of the personnel being hired (equal opportunity shouldnt mean decreasing standards to make less qualified...QUALIFIED)
 
Currently the record pistol shot is 2,010 yards with a 10mm. using a customized Glock by retired ICE Special Agent Victor Avila. I remember the SF writer L. Neil Smith wrote in an alternate universe future history that Dornaus and Dixon finally delivers magazines for the Bren Ten several centuries in the future. My EDC is a .40 S&W because my arthritis can't handle 10 mm.
 
I must say, I'm very pleased with my XDM Elite. I don't regret picking it over the Glock 20. And as much as I love my Echelon, lately I've been carrying my 10MM as my EDC. Northern Minnesota has its fair share of bears, so it's just common sense to pack the 10 instead of any other caliber. My preferred ammo is Underwood Extreme Defender, but I also like the Hornady Critical Defense.
My XDM Elite 10MM 1000px.png
 
Axperez said:
Currently the record pistol shot is 2,010 yards with a 10mm. using a customized Glock by retired ICE Special Agent Victor Avila. I remember the SF writer L. Neil Smith wrote in an alternate universe future history that Dornaus and Dixon finally delivers magazines for the Bren Ten several centuries in the future. My EDC is a .40 S&W because my arthritis can't handle 10 mm.
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My arthritis must not be as bad because I can handle the 10MM through 9-12 shots, not quite the whole mag. After that, it's not painful but my hands feel weak at that point. I've decided the remedy is to use grip strengthening exercises and objects like racquetballs to overcome recoil fatigue.
 
Sppkane County Sheriffs Office made the jump from 38 special revolvers to 10mm handguns, selecting i believe the S&W 1076. Duty ammo was the FBI, Federal load of 180gr up.
Our agency was the first to use the new handgun, 10mm Federal ammo in real world shooting situations. The Federal ammo performed quite well in the first shooting, with 2 shot fired, both shots were hits and ended the confrontation immediately. Multiple subsequent shootings resulted in very favorable performance from the Federal 10mm load. Nearly all subsequent shootings ended after 2 rounds were fired. If memory serves me correctly, all of our shootings but 2 resulted in immediate incapacitation of suspects after they were struck with 2 rds. Only 2 suspects survived being shot, both were left paralyzed.
The 10mm performed very well with the S&W 1076 utilizing the Federal 180grain FBI loads.
 
Ayoob had industry and national level respect. So for the critics that outright “hate” him two questions.

1 Why?
2 How many training and court relevant programs like MAG 20/40 etc and articles have you had published, pistol championships won or been successful with firearms video media channels? …..I’ll wait!

Hilton Yam had a great video in Gbi Miami and touched in the 10mm on his 10-8 performance channel but sadly removed them because YouTube is stupid. They are in his patrion page if anyone k owe how to link it

But here is an interesting and accurate explanation by TFB

 
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