The truth about deadly force encounters
- Thread starter Onewolf426
- Start date
Respectfully I believe the internet will misunderstand this as go faster.
The bigger issue is identifying what or who needs shot and when. And the beginning video clips of the good guy aimed in is the failuer point. If you are aimed in uiu can not properly asses your target or movements. Where at the low ready uiu see everythjng and any of his movements and can raise up and make hits (Force Science did a whole study and the ones at low ready made proper shoot/bo shoot decisions 100% of the time where people aimed in misidentified and shot when it was at appropriate over 55% because they couldn’t accurately see. And as far as “speed” there was no discerning difference in if the BG was quick enough to shoot you at low ready he’d be able to get a round off when the good guy is aimed in
There’s a formwr deputy in Florida charged with Murder because he shot a homeowner holding a gun down at his side because well “go faster” is the order of the day
weartv.com
The bigger issue is identifying what or who needs shot and when. And the beginning video clips of the good guy aimed in is the failuer point. If you are aimed in uiu can not properly asses your target or movements. Where at the low ready uiu see everythjng and any of his movements and can raise up and make hits (Force Science did a whole study and the ones at low ready made proper shoot/bo shoot decisions 100% of the time where people aimed in misidentified and shot when it was at appropriate over 55% because they couldn’t accurately see. And as far as “speed” there was no discerning difference in if the BG was quick enough to shoot you at low ready he’d be able to get a round off when the good guy is aimed in
There’s a formwr deputy in Florida charged with Murder because he shot a homeowner holding a gun down at his side because well “go faster” is the order of the day
Trial date set for ex-Okaloosa deputy charged in Roger Fortson shooting death
OKALOOSA COUNTY, Fla. -- A trial date is set for the former okaloosa county deputy - charged in the shooting death of a senior airman in fort walton beacheddie
weartv.com
SimonRL
Ronin
I bet this was great in the original English, but this translation is a bit hard on the grey matter.Respectfully I believe the internet will misunderstand this as go faster.
The bigger issue is identifying what or who needs shot and when. And the beginning video clips of the good guy aimed in is the failuer point. If you are aimed in uiu can not properly asses your target or movements. Where at the low ready uiu see everythjng and any of his movements and can raise up and make hits (Force Science did a whole study and the ones at low ready made proper shoot/bo shoot decisions 100% of the time where people aimed in misidentified and shot when it was at appropriate over 55% because they couldn’t accurately see. And as far as “speed” there was no discerning difference in if the BG was quick enough to shoot you at low ready he’d be able to get a round off when the good guy is aimed in
There’s a formwr deputy in Florida charged with Murder because he shot a homeowner holding a gun down at his side because well “go faster” is the order of the day
Trial date set for ex-Okaloosa deputy charged in Roger Fortson shooting death
OKALOOSA COUNTY, Fla. -- A trial date is set for the former okaloosa county deputy - charged in the shooting death of a senior airman in fort walton beacheddie
PieterCoetzee
Professional
Initially I didnt want to like this guy; but he won me over, especially with the 21/35 foot rule change. He makes sense. Processing DOES take time. What I think (wish) should/would happen is training the public and especially the MEDIA to stop promoting the BS of wounding and warning shots.
Before a grand jury was seated, my old department would put the jurors through a short shooting course (including laws) and the "video range" to show them how THEY would react. It did seem to have a positive effect.
On a side note I also wish there were more "video ranges", simunition and airsoft tactical courses (NOT Games) open to the public at reasonable prices,
My take away was that you have to be willing to commit and pre-game encounters as in what will I do when.... Of course real life will likely be different but pre-gaming gives some mental preparation
Oh and yes...A panda eats shoots and leaves (for those that know)
Before a grand jury was seated, my old department would put the jurors through a short shooting course (including laws) and the "video range" to show them how THEY would react. It did seem to have a positive effect.
On a side note I also wish there were more "video ranges", simunition and airsoft tactical courses (NOT Games) open to the public at reasonable prices,
My take away was that you have to be willing to commit and pre-game encounters as in what will I do when.... Of course real life will likely be different but pre-gaming gives some mental preparation
Oh and yes...A panda eats shoots and leaves (for those that know)
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Anchorite
Professional
Interesting to me, if for no other reason than it seems like a huge amount of work to do that.....espically when a GJ will indict whatever you "urge" them to indict (i.e., a ham sandwich).
Not to mention, the actual jury that would hear the trial would not include any members of the GJ, by law.
So, what was the point of that exercise?
I have on occasion asked in pre-trial motions for transcripts of GJ proceedings and, not surprisingly, found evidence turned over in discovery that was never offered to the GJ. But smart DAs will not have transcripts of particularly nasty cases presented to GJs. Wonder why?
Yes! I do have the book. Preach!
PieterCoetzee
Professional
Well I cant say for sure as those decisions were made at a much higher level than mine. My GUESS is it was the beginning of informing the public; but maybe thats just wishful thinking.
I can say Ive had a few really good questions from Grand Jury members
BruceMc
Elite
There was a big dust up in Harris County years ago when the District Attorneys Office gave new grand jury members a shoot don't shoot kind of digital shooting course. It was argued by defense attorneys that it prejudiced them in favor of the police. I believe a judge ultimately ruled it did not prejudice the jury.
Districts Attorneys are not required by law to introduce all of the evidence in a case, generally they will only present enough to sustain an indictment.
I think a defense attorney would need to think twice about having a grand jury transcript entered into a trial as at times the grand jury may consider information that would never be admitted in a trial.
Districts Attorneys are not required by law to introduce all of the evidence in a case, generally they will only present enough to sustain an indictment.
I think a defense attorney would need to think twice about having a grand jury transcript entered into a trial as at times the grand jury may consider information that would never be admitted in a trial.
Anchorite
Professional
Considering how criminal appellate courts generally tend to rule on appeals, no surprise.
It's true that the DA does not have to introduce all evidence at the GJ stage, only evidence favorable to secure an indictment. But the saying is true, a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. At trial OTOH, evidence withheld is another matter entirely.
I don't disagree with you. Judges don't typically like prosecutors that play ambush with criminal discovery, nor does case law favor the State when they play such games. At the same time, GJs often don't hear all the evidence either. It would all be on a case-by-case basis, for sure.
PieterCoetzee
Professional
To be fair a defendant can choose a preliminary hearing in lieu of a grand jury. He and his attorney are present at the prelim and there’s less games the prosecutor can play
PieterCoetzee
Professional
It’s asked at the Bail Hearing (for felonies). Defendants are given the opportunity to choose at the hearing and if they don’t know, they are given 3 days to file the request; but since most defendants don’t understand they don’t opt for it and it times out before they talk to a lawyer.
I’ve probably been to 100+ Grand Juries but maybe 5 Prelims
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PieterCoetzee
Professional
It may be a Maryland only thing, Im not sure.
Going back to my Army days as I recall all felonies got an Article 32, which is essentially a preliminary hearing
BruceMc
Elite
In Maryland as in many other states, a defendant who has been charged by information can request a probable cause hearing. Each state has a time limit in which a grand jury indictment can be obtained before the probable cause hearing comes into play so the District Attorney in actuality has the say about that. In Maryland it is 30 days.
Integrity... WHAT A CONCEPT!
"The administration of justice should be tempered by mercy, but mercy should never interfere with the true administration of justice." - Captain O
I wrote this while I was working on my Post Baccalaureate studies at Portland State University. Not every offense needs to be prosecuted to the hilt, but felonious offenders with higher rates of recidivism generally require intensive behavior-altering treatment programs.
Misdemeanor offenders are an entirely different "kettle of fish".
I still believe this.
"The administration of justice should be tempered by mercy, but mercy should never interfere with the true administration of justice." - Captain O
I wrote this while I was working on my Post Baccalaureate studies at Portland State University. Not every offense needs to be prosecuted to the hilt, but felonious offenders with higher rates of recidivism generally require intensive behavior-altering treatment programs.
Misdemeanor offenders are an entirely different "kettle of fish".
I still believe this.
Anchorite
Professional
Nope. Not the same thing. A preliminary hearing is a probable cause hearing, filed by the Defendant.
Even if a judge doesn't find sufficient probable cause and tosses the felony case at that point, it can still be indicted.
Anchorite
Professional
A defendant charged with a felony has the right to what's referred to often as a "plea on information," which short-circuits a GJ and indictment. The defendant also waives his/her preliminary (probable cause) hearing if they decide to plea on "information."
BruceMc
Elite
Yes, I have seen cases where a defendant pleads guilty after being arrested on a warrant or information while waiving grand jury indictment. They were generally lower felonies like thefts and dwi's. I have also seen JP's who have their own agendas deny probable cause and release a defendant. I have also seen JPs release a defendant because the arresting officer was lazy or incomplete with his probable cause statement. I always preached to my patrolmen, cover each and every element of a crime in your statement, don't just say he did it. Texas places a lot in the J.P.'s in the criminal justice system.