Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled "Was the M1903A4 Sniper Rifle No Good?" and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/was-the-m1903a4-sniper-rifle-no-good/.
Was the M1903A4 Sniper Rifle No Good?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Talyn
SAINT
No good? Considering the times with rifle & optics tech, and the expedited need for that type of rifle the A4 was as good as things were at the time.
What else was available? Nothing... The M1G version (C& D models) was late and had the same level of rifle & optic performance.
Higher quality sniper rifles didn't show up until Vietnam.
Alot of subjectivity in the article. My .02
Note: All of the 1903A4s were made by Remington.
What else was available? Nothing... The M1G version (C& D models) was late and had the same level of rifle & optic performance.
Higher quality sniper rifles didn't show up until Vietnam.
Alot of subjectivity in the article. My .02
Note: All of the 1903A4s were made by Remington.
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Kodiak Cowboy
Custom
M1903A4 
a mass produced A1 basically with less lanez and groves. Only two each to be exact. Come on! This is what the US calls a sniper rifle? That is unacceptable! "Can I have my 03A1 back now please"?
I remember my Grandfather tell us grand kids about the less lanez and groves of the A4 when I just started learning about rifle marksmanship as kid! Grampa fought in WW2.
a mass produced A1 basically with less lanez and groves. Only two each to be exact. Come on! This is what the US calls a sniper rifle? That is unacceptable! "Can I have my 03A1 back now please"? I remember my Grandfather tell us grand kids about the less lanez and groves of the A4 when I just started learning about rifle marksmanship as kid! Grampa fought in WW2.
Talyn
SAINT
The A4 was based off the A3, not the pre-WW2 configuration-type A1.M1903A4
I remember my Grandfather tell us grand kids about the less lanez and groves of the A4 when I just started learning about rifle marksmanship as kid! Grampa fought in WW2.
An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Remington M1903 Rifles
Though not as well known as the Springfield and Rock Island ’03s, the more than 1 million M1903-based rifles made by Remington Arms Co. during World War II included the primary U.S. sniping rifle of that epic conflict.
But the USMC did have sniper-versions of the A1 in WW2 and Korea.
USMC NM M1903s, M1903A1 Unertl Sniper Rifles & M1903A4 Sniper Rifles
The most iconic sniper rifle of the Second World War, the USMC M1903A1 8x Unertl equipped sniper rifle was the backbone of Marine snipers in WWII and Korea. Born of the Marine Corps’ elite Na…
usmcweaponry.com
And, the 2-groove barrels were found to shoot as well as the 4-groove. And Smith-Corona used some 6-groove barrels in their A3s.
An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Smith-Corona ’03A3s
Although not as widely used as the M1 Garand, the Smith-Corona Model 1903A3s saw service in every theater of the war.
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Recusant
Hellcat
Smith-Corona was assigned two distinct “blocks” of serial numbers: 3,608,000 — 3,707,999 and 4,708,000 — 4,992,000. Reportedly, very early in production, High Standard (the maker of the barrels) acquired some unfinished barrel “blanks” from Savage Arms Co. These had six grooves and were initially produced for commercial rifles before being diverted to the ’03A3 production program. High Standard completed the machining of the barrels and marked them “SC” along with the month and year of manufacture. The Ordnance Dept. granted the company a waiver for use of these non-standard barrels as their utilization would permit High Standard to deliver barrels to Smith-Corona sooner than would otherwise have been possible. The number of six-groove barrels used in Smith-Corona ’03A3 production is estimated to be about 5,000. After using up the six-groove barrel blanks, High Standard began manufacture of four-groove barrels, which were used for the balance of production except for a few two-groove barrels that were used for about a one- or two-month period in late 1943. Regardless, the majority of Smith-Corona rifles had four-groove barrels.
Kodiak Cowboy
Custom
Oh, ok! Roger that. Thankyou for correcting me. Good to know!
Recusant
Hellcat
All the Smith-Corona's I have are 4-grooved. I have several Remington's that have the 2-groove set up. There's not that much difference in accuracy considering you are either shooting old surplus ammo (the Greek stuff) are newly made ball ammo that's hardly match grade. Then you have to consider how much wear the barrel has seen. The history of the 03-A3 is that there's not that much history. The ones that were issued went to troops in the rear and many were used in training. Lots of the rifles that people have today were never issued and were surplused soon after the war. At that time the cost was under $30 per gun. The 03-A4 was basicly the same Remington rifle but with a crappy scope by today's standards. But scopes were not the thing before WWII so what went on the A4 was the best they had at the time unless the US could have bought German made optics, but we know that wasn't an option. Even though an all correct A4 will cost you in the neighborhood of 4 grand today it's because good ones are rare. It's hard to find one as nice as the A3's and you have to be pretty knowledgeable or you could end up with a fake. For a lot less money I'd been happy with an early Winchester Model 70.
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HayesGreener
Hellcat
The gentleman who taught me to shoot trap and skeet when I was a boy had been commander of a sniper platoon in WWI. They used a 1903 with a Underl scope but I do not know which model. He told me they were moved into trenches during the night where the opposing forces had become familiar and complacent, and at first light went to work. He told me the German helmets made excellent targets and gave a loud clang when hit squarely. I don't know much more about the sniper groups in WWI, but old Phil was still one helluva shot with rifle, a 1911, and shotgun 50 years later. I regret not sitting down with him more to hear his stories of both the war and the early days of aviation.
attheside
Alpha
Hello.
Question about M1903A4 "scant" stock sniper rifle.
I am not good at English because I am Korean, so please understand even if the context is weird.
During World War II, some of the M1903A4 sniper rifles were said to have been supplied to the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marine Corps, equipped with so-called "scant" stock at the factory.
However, some say that this "scant" stock is a spare stock that has never been used in battlefields.
I was wondering if the M1903A4 "scant" stock sniper rifle was used by the US Army and the US Marine Corps.
And do you have a picture of the M1903A4 "scant" stock sniper rifle on the actual battlefield?
Some say no photos were found on the battlefield, so they were never used.
Question about M1903A4 "scant" stock sniper rifle.
I am not good at English because I am Korean, so please understand even if the context is weird.
During World War II, some of the M1903A4 sniper rifles were said to have been supplied to the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marine Corps, equipped with so-called "scant" stock at the factory.
However, some say that this "scant" stock is a spare stock that has never been used in battlefields.
I was wondering if the M1903A4 "scant" stock sniper rifle was used by the US Army and the US Marine Corps.
And do you have a picture of the M1903A4 "scant" stock sniper rifle on the actual battlefield?
Some say no photos were found on the battlefield, so they were never used.
Talyn
SAINT
They were made & issued with both stock styles.
Factory scant stocked A4s were marked RA / FJA / ordnance wheel (crossed cannon) and had the Remington proof "P" and subinspector markings ahead of trigger guard. A4 scant stocks that have no markings would be replacements or heavily sanded originals. Heavily sanded stocks are self evident.
www.americanrifleman.org
Factory scant stocked A4s were marked RA / FJA / ordnance wheel (crossed cannon) and had the Remington proof "P" and subinspector markings ahead of trigger guard. A4 scant stocks that have no markings would be replacements or heavily sanded originals. Heavily sanded stocks are self evident.
An Official Journal Of The NRA | M1903A4 Development: The U.S. Army’s Search For A Sniper Rifle
Despite the lessons learned during World War I, the U.S. Army lacked a purpose-built sniper rifle throughout the interwar period, even after efforts were made to develop one. The need became more apparent as World War II loomed, leading to the adoption of the M1903A4, with its developmental...
Recusant
Hellcat
In his book, Lt. Col. William Brophy states that the "stock on early A4 models is the same as that of the M1903A1 rifle, having pistol grip and the front and rear stock screws and nuts ( bolts and not pins), in place of a straight grip and front and rear stock pins as in the M1903A3 rifle". Further, the M1903A4 Reminton Sniper Models will have parts identical to the Remington M1903A3 model's except for the absence of the front and rear sight. These slots should be parked and not have any evidence of ever having been used. Scant grip stocks were field replacements for the A3 and were modified by having the cut for the low bolt inletted into the stock. Always the bolt cut and inspection marks very carefully on A4s. There are lots of faked A4s on the market. Do your research before you buy. Correct A4s go for 5 grand and up these days. I wouldn't buy from anyone that didn't allow at least a 3 day inspection. Hope this helps.
Talyn
SAINT
1903 stocks - different types
- S stock with grasping grooves
- S stock sans grasping grooves.
- C stock
- scant stock.
- a little more detail
- early S stock, grooves, no cross bolts, rod bayonet rifle.
- S stock, single cross bolts, grooves.
- S stock, single cross bolt, second cross bolt added, grooves
- S Stock, 2 cross bolts, SA and RIA
- S stock, 2 cross bolts, SA notched for Mark 1
- S stock, 2 cross bolts, Remington Arms,
- S stock, grasping grooves, Remington arms
- S stock, no grasping grooves, Remington arms. cross bolts, no cut for handguard ring,
- S stock No grooves, replacements, made by Keystone, American Billiard and Bowling, militon Bradly and others, not cut for A3 handguard ring.
- S stock, same as above, but cut for hand guard ring.
- Scant grip stock, 2 cross bolts, no cut for handguard ring, SA made. and other subcontractors as above.
- Scant grip same as above, cut for A3 handguard ring.
- S stock.. cross bolts, cut for handguard ring, Remington made. for A3 rifles.
- S stock, Cross bolts, cut for ring, Smith Corona made. for A3 rifles.
- S stock, cross bolts. cut for ring, made by Remington for SC. A3 rifles. has flaming bomb at tip and ahead of the butt.. with SC markings.
- early pistol grip model B type stock, first C stocks, very rare.
- pre war C stock, SA made, Springfield 1903A1, and the first 1000 1903A4s.
- WW2 style C stock, fat grip. Keystone. and others, with hand guard ring cut,
- WW2 style C stock, fat grip, mil cut for 1903A4 snipers rifle. Keystone, and other subcontractors.
- scant grip WW2 style mill cut for 1903A4 snipers rifles. various subcontarctors and SA.
- NRA sporter stock, pistol grip, sporting rifle fore stock, with band, {shotgun butt}
- NRA sporter stock, same as above, 1922 buttplate cut.
- NRA sporter stock, same as both above, cut for rear sight base.
- 1922 stock..model B style {gallery rifle} pistol grip.
- 1922 pistol grip stock, rebuild and replacement stocks...SA made.
- as well as about 15 other special stocks. NM, NBA sporter, and others
Recusant
Hellcat
All of these guys contradict each other. People always point out to exeptions to what's in print. Now we can talk about Clawson's book/bible on the 1911. Personally I'd be hesitant to by an A4 today. And I'll never buy another Navy Luger because of all the fakes that are out there. It's sometimes hard to find someone locally that is knowledgeable enough to steer you in the right direction.
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Recusant
Hellcat
It's almost easier to understand the ins and outs of brain surgery.
Recusant
Hellcat
MilSurp: Collecting The Model 1903A4 Sniper Rifle
The Model 1903A4 is a very desirable collectible U.S. military rifle, but beware of fakes. Read on to find out more about this intriguing rifle and how a true sample can be told from a fake.