testtest

Folding Sub

Bassbob

Ronin
Gotta admit I’m confused by this. How does any community deserve poorly trained LEOs? Where Killer lives they certainly have a high enough SES to afford proper training for the Police Department.
Because communities that don't fund their police force well enough to train them and give them the resources they need to train with are going to have poorly trained officers. Vote for people who will support properly trained/funded law enforcement agencies.
 

KillerFord1977

Ronin
Founding Member
There are more than 800,000 LEO'S in 17,000 LE agencies with a full range of training and competency standards. Shooting is just one small percentage of training requirements. If MOST are poorly trained where you live I am sorry. Your community gets precisely the level of police service it deserves.
I know many Federal, State and Local LEO’s.
-Most dont get enough range time to practice
-Most are overworked and cant get the time
-Most have to buy their own ammo. All but one I know only gets 50 rounds a month from their dept free to shoot
-Most only qualify 2x a year
-Most are now on overtime for lack of resources

Last 5 yrs has been differnet for budgets and training than the last 20 they ALL tell me
 

Area52

Master Class
I know many Federal, State and Local LEO’s.
-Most dont get enough range time to practice
-Most are overworked and cant get the time
-Most have to buy their own ammo. All but one I know only gets 50 rounds a month from their dept free to shoot
-Most only qualify 2x a year
-Most are now on overtime for lack of resources

Last 5 yrs has been differnet for budgets and training than the last 20 they ALL tell me
Agree on those points.

The once a year LE range qualifying of many bigger Depts had ammo (defund budget cuts) shortages.

Even still, if you listen and believe the Elected, media, and justice reform warriors, LE in major cities have to train better to shoot guns, knives, bludgeoning objects from the grips of the violent armed assailants only with permission when 45 minutes of talk-it-out peace circle doesn’t de-escalate... and still run the risk of civilian monitors disagreeing the use of force altogether.

I’ve seen the community always at the range. If ATF wanted to do some background checking on anyone and the hardware coming thru the door...man-oh-man. The Big City Guaranteed income programs ensure that ammo is equitably available too.

As for school RO in swat apparel, well, it would fit the tender policies in place at Chicago public high schools. FL isn’t worried about hurt feelings.
Interesting fact learned today one high school has a student capacity of +1200 students, but enrollment in about 64 total students which doesn’t account for absenteeism. Most teachers and it’s union are against police ($) in schools here. LSC are slightly pro SRO.
 

wmg1299

Professional
I'm glad to see someone taking SRO Units seriously. The majority of the departments in this country assign SRO's based on seniority, with no physical fitness requirements. This leads to SRO Units full of burned-out, overweight officers who took the assignment to get weekends off and stay off the streets. Other departments give SRO assignments to their least intimidating officers in order to make the students comfortable. When an emergency occurs, the last thing kids need are elderly, out-of-shape, non-intimidating officers. I'm not convinced that the Sub 2000 is the best weapon for the job, but at least this department is taking their responsibility to protect students seriously.
 

HayesGreener

Professional
Putting a carbine in the hands of an SRO on a daily basis helps to ensure precision shot placement. It certainly trumps a pistol or a carbine locked in the cruiser.

I understand that many communities do not fund their agency's training and equipment adequately. Some because they just don't put a premium on those skills and just fund enough for day-to-day operations. The fact is that MOST officers will never fire their weapons in anger in a 25-year career. Officers working narcotics or fugitive task forces, SWAT teams, protection details, etc., in general get a lot of firearms training. Some agencies are fortunate enough to have a robust training program with adequate budgets to sustain ongoing programs. That depends, of course on community expectations and leadership. There are some officers who are outstanding in their work performance but struggle throughout their careers with firearms training. We will never get perfection but strive to improve wherever possible.

Some communities will not fund adequately because they don't want to promote "those racist trigger-happy warrior cops" and see the police as undesirable, or at best a necessary evil. The irony in this is that officers who are highly trained in the use of force are confident in their abilities and far less likely to use unreasonable or unnecessary force. Another irony is communities wanting to eliminate armored military vehicles and other protective equipment which can enable officers to enter a kill zone under fire. If your community fails to support and fund adequate training and equipment, shame on them.

Sheriff Ivey in Brevard is a professional who has a bias for training. That department is accredited for LE and for Corrections, which means they have a wide range of professional standards they must adhere to, including training standards. I can tell you that department is dead serious about law enforcement. Carbines on SRO's are a good idea.

Ask your local elected officials if your department is accredited, and if not, why not? Ask how much range time and ammunition those officers are allocated. You can't correct training shortcomings until you expose them and start talking about it.

Here is something to consider. Florida's Guardian program provides in law for armed guardians in schools. They could be existing staff, or people just hired for the purpose of being guardians. They must undergo 120 hours of training provided by the sheriff on the range, to include precision marksmanship training. I am told that fewer than 50% who attend the training fail in marksmanship. SRO's you can bet are expected to attain the same level of proficiency. It is only when your elected officials place that kind of emphasis on the training that you will get the competencies you are looking for.
 

wolfpack076

Master Class
I agree. I'm a Leo now for 31 years and a Firearms Instructor. Most depts. don't have the budgets anymore and most cops aren't gun guys so to speak. Some actually hate qualifying and a majority don't practice as much as they should. I do what I can every year to train and teach them and many times I end up using some of my own money and supplies to make it happen. And the bean counters track all expenditures with laser like precision so it's frustrating as ### to accomplish things.
 

HayesGreener

Professional
I agree. I'm a Leo now for 31 years and a Firearms Instructor. Most depts. don't have the budgets anymore and most cops aren't gun guys so to speak. Some actually hate qualifying and a majority don't practice as much as they should. I do what I can every year to train and teach them and many times I end up using some of my own money and supplies to make it happen. And the bean counters track all expenditures with laser like precision so it's frustrating as ### to accomplish things.
Thanks for your commitment, Brother!
 

Sld1959

Professional
I find shooting proficiency, for LEOs or civilian is highly individual and basically a matter of desire. If the individual wants to be good, they will put in the time required to get become good. If it is not a high priority they will be less proficient.

Having never fired the SUB I really cannot comment upon its use. I will say the CMR30 is a hoot and seems from what I have seen to be very reliable.
 
Top