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Pit Bulls

HayesGreener

Professional
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10mmLife

Moderator
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I know a lot of people are fans of pit bulls, but this happens far too often with that breed. My daughter is an ER doc and has had to put some people back together after pit bull attacks. Children and elderly are especially vulnerable

Pit bull attack data base
The same argument is used by political groups for certain types of firearms, that they are too dangerous.

Certain animals and firearms are desirable to the wrong type of people but this doesn't make the animals nor the firearms bad.

I'm not here to advocate specifically for pitbulls as I like and respect all dogs. I grew up around pitbulls in a very ghetto area of Massachusetts and you would see plenty of examples of the wrong people owning these dogs. Before pitbulls became popular in my area of the mid 90's rottweiler's were the ghetto dog of choice.

Bad owners create bad dogs no matter the breed.
 
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HayesGreener

Professional
I agree somewhat but fighting genetics play a role. I think there is a combination of genetics in the dogs, combined with the macho and or stupid in the owners, that work together to make these attacks so vicious. Most of the attacks I saw in my years on the street were dogs owned by thugs or neglectful owners.
 

10mmLife

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Staff member
Founding Member
There is no doubt in my mind that attack was  not unprovoked, we just don't know what provoked it.

I've never seen a bad pitbull (or any other dog) for that matter that wasn't bad because the owner made them that way
Animals can be unpredictable and nothing can be ruled out in terms of behavior. An animal with a history of being amazingly friendly can one day turn dangerous for no explained reason.

My uncle had a German shepherd a bunch of years ago when I was a child around the age of 6 or 7 years old. This dog was extremely friendly and my uncle had him for years without incident. When I got bit I was sitting and petting the dog with my aunt right next to me encouraging me to pet him when the dog snapped at my face and took a chunk of skin out of my cheek that has left a permanent scar.

After all these years the life lesson that has stayed with me is never fully trust any animal. Zoo keeper's and other types of animal handlers have learned this the hard way sometimes with fatal results.
 

Pitdogg2

Professional
Bad owners create bad dogs no matter the breed.
100%

I agree somewhat but fighting genetics play a role.
Nope!
Back in the day when the old timers matched dogs often they would not have a people biter on their property. They killed them! You are correct the genetics play a roll but it's not the "fighting" genetics. The American Pitbull Terrier was the nanny dog back in the 20's, 30's and 40's.
Along comes the 80's and gang culture, training them to become people aggressive and then BREEDING those dogs the old timers killed DEAD!
I've been to yards full of dogs that fought many matches by the old time breeders. I could walk out into their yards and walk up to any dog there and pet without fear of being bit. They old timers fought dogs for breeding to breed the best dogs to carry on the stock, they NEVER EVER fought dogs to the death. It goes against their creed to carry forward the best dogs for breeding.
You do not breed dogs that do not perform their job, you bred the best dogs who do their job the best. This goes for every dog breed not just bulldogs. If your bird dog don't hunt or retrieve like the breed should you as a dog breeder do not put the bloodline into the next future dogs.
 
Back at the beginning of time when there were kings and queens felines were the pets of choice, canines took over when it was realized they were better at protecting those at the top.
Although it is expected that many will have their own opinions on the viscousness of the different dog breeds it was always believed that all dogs were born non-viscous, in the last few decades that has proven to be false.
With the practice of mixing dog breeds that has become more common in the last 20 years it has become widely known that certain breeds should not be mixed due to their propensity to be born viscous and violent dogs. My ex wife is an award winning dog groomer who has groomed dogs that have twice won championships at The Westminster Dog show, she is also an Animal Control Officer for a small town in Connecticut, trust me when I say she has seen the good and unfortunately the very bad in dogs. I too believed at one time that no dogs were born viscous then I met a Great Dane/Dalmatian cross, that dog due to breeding was naturally viscous and was uncontrollable and
un-trainable. My wife brought one home once after the loss of our last pure bred G. Dane, the dog nearly attacked one our foster children and then me when I stepped between the girl and the dog. The attack was unprovoked and the dog was put down the next day.
Are there good PitBulls? Absolutely! there are however as mentioned here many due genetics and unfortunately training are viscous violent dogs and have no place in a polite civilized society. Just like some humans.
And then there is the size of the dog, Great Danes and Mastiffs don’t have to be violent or viscous dogs because their size is very intimidating, small dogs are more commonly Known to be viscous because? well they have to be because their small!
As mentioned many people believe that no attack is unprovoked, that is also not true, yes there are many times when a dog or dogs attack due to mistreatment however many times “especially” when there are more then 1 dog the pack mentality takes over and an attack can happen just because the smell of the victim. It is widely known that most babies are mauled by the family dog because the baby was just fed and smells of food. Dogs are always hungry.
Humans are animals and dogs just like some humans are born violent and some are raised that way or become that way due to how they are treated.
 
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Animals can be unpredictable and nothing can be ruled out in terms of behavior. An animal with a history of being amazingly friendly can one day turn dangerous for no explained reason.

My uncle had a German shepherd a bunch of years ago when I was a child around the age of 6 or 7 years old. This dog was extremely friendly and my uncle had him for years without incident. When I got bit I was sitting and petting the dog with my aunt right next to me encouraging me to pet him when the dog snapped at my face and took a chunk of skin out of my cheek that has left a permanent scar.

After all these years the life lesson that has stayed with me is never fully trust any animal. Zoo keeper's and other types of animal handlers have learned this the hard way sometimes with fatal results.
Last job I had before the Army was in a zoo in Florida. I am aware that animals are unpredictable. We had a baby chimp who used to throw bowling balls at me and she meant it.

One of the keepers got his ponytail ripped out by the roots by an Orangutan.

Having said that, a pit bull is IME no more or less unpredictable than any other breed of dog I've encountered
 

Area52

Master Class
Heard an old timer give an analogy about how everyone is born without knowledge and everything we now know was learned.
Something that is hardly ever or never brought up is the component of early developmental disability and genetics by any means, whether human or animal as it relates to viciousness.

Do animals have these same difficulties, especially not knowing it’s lineage and past inbreeding.
When it comes to the breed of dog, do they all have that primal killer instinct? What makes my cocker spaniel pee when greeted? Why does my terrier eat the mice it catches?

Dogs must have an inherent sense that triggers it’s defensiveness and offensiveness as needed. Some breeds will roll over if challenged, others of the same breed will fight back.

Speaking of terriers, had Jack Russell mix that was as friendly as can be. One day the kids next door were teasing it by kicking the chain link fence to rile him up. When I told the kids not to tease the dog, they laughed it off and had to be reminded even by their parents. Ever since, that dog never was friendly to those kids and would bark, jump and patrol that fence line like a junkyard dog, almost like a caged panther stalking, waiting for them. Oddly, he never did this when the adults next door would approach. Simply it didn’t like those hyper kids.
Did the dog learn make a sport of this or was it truly revengeful alpha behavior on display? True wild animals can be trained house pets from chimps to tigers…but what triggers the bad behavior?

The people or the animal???

..and ‘
 

10mmLife

Moderator
Staff member
Founding Member
Last job I had before the Army was in a zoo in Florida. I am aware that animals are unpredictable. We had a baby chimp who used to throw bowling balls at me and she meant it.

One of the keepers got his ponytail ripped out by the roots by an Orangutan.

Having said that, a pit bull is IME no more or less unpredictable than any other breed of dog I've encountered
Agreed!
 

Annihilator

SAINT
Founding Member
My thoughts on Pit Bulls, yes they can be dangerous, but in reality, any breed of dog can be, to me, it’s how you brought up the animal, if you treat any dog mean, tease and torment it, they in turn may turn on you or anybody. I know lots of people who have them and there just big babies, just my thoughts.
 

wmg1299

Professional
I think "pack mentality" might have been a factor here. Without all the details it's hard to have much of an opinion.
The pack mentality is particularly very strong in Pitts. My wife fell in love with a 12 week-old "Golden Lab Mix" that a local adoption agency had at the feed store a few years back. The receipt may say otherwise, but that dog is predominantly Pitt.

The dog is easily the sweetest pet I have ever owned, but I have always taken extra care to be aware of her potential. Grace, like many Pitts, is not aggressive with other dogs. Her reaction to other dogs is to almost immediately bring them into the pack. She instantly took to our other dogs, but never wanted to leave the house for a walk without all of the dogs present. This pack mentality can make Pitts dangerous if they are abandoned, or are allowed to roam freely with strays. As much as I love my dog, and after personally knowing a number of very friendly Pitts, I would still never approach a group of Pitts roaming together.
 
Few years ago on a Palm Sunday lady and a guy called they found two Dogo Argentino dogs wandering their property so they called me. They brought them over to my patrol vehicle and lady remarked that my uniform was all clean that she'd put them in my car since the dogs were filthy. Ok. I stood there opened the door first one went in and all a sudden the last dog came and before you can blink an eye sunk its teeth into my upper left thigh area violently shaking its head. With blood pouring out I managed to punch the dog several times before he let me go and then he immediately tried the second time to take yet another bite but this time was met w my ASP baton. The dogs were leashed at the time and there was about a five foot distance between the lady and me. Dog warden stated that I should have shot the dog. Nope. I do not harbor any ill feelings toward the dog. I blame the asshole owner who I come to find out later wanted that breed because of status apparently that breed hunts lions in Africa. Well really nice scar on the leg now. Any dog can be made to be mean and any dog can snap at any time.
 
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