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Why Clothing Matters

Talyn

SAINT
Founding Member
If you’ve never had the opportunity to watch demonstrations showing common and seemingly insignificant barriers affect how a bullet penetrates and expands, it’s hard to believe the truth. But fact is, something as subtle as the type of clothing an attacker wears can affect how a self-defense bullet behaves on—and after—impact. And that can change the outcome of a life-and-death encounter.

Why Clothing Matters

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I have no doubt Speer is good stuff ( I have Gold Dot in my .40 right now) I have to believe though that the FBI and most LEO agencies have extensively tested HST and came to similar conclusions since they all seem to be using it.
 
Most of the plugged-nose designs (GDG2, CritDefense/Duty) do have more slightly reliable expansion through barriers, but it comes at the cost of reduced expansion in all materials.

I prefer HST; it’s got an excellent barrier performance rating, but has much better expansion that the plugged designs.
 
Most of the plugged-nose designs (GDG2, CritDefense/Duty) do have more slightly reliable expansion through barriers, but it comes at the cost of reduced expansion in all materials.

I prefer HST; it’s got an excellent barrier performance rating, but has much better expansion that the plugged designs.

Hst and Xtps are my two preferred go tos.
 
I personally think its shot placement vs round type.
In war, folks get hit with shrapnel from exploding munitions. That can cause severe wound channel or even loss of limbs. As much damage or more than a bullet.
Another view is rifle round hits to the body
Yet countless soldiers survive these wounds.
Why? Because of where on the body the wound was taken.
Another view. Look at all the deer hunters have to track down that ran hundreds of yards after taking a heavy caliber bullet round or arrow because of poor shot placement.

Do I want the best chance to take down an attacker. Sure I do. So I dont use 115 gr target rounds in SD guns.

I have no doubt a bullet is going thru normal clothing. I’ve seen all the videos of clothes put on pork and shot for testing.
All the bullets go thru the jackets and flannel shirts.

Do JHP’s offer better results?
Testing shows they can.
But if you hit someone with a double tap of JHP and its not a critical incapacitating shot, bullets not going to matter.
 
I don't know that there has been a magic bullet since the demise of the Winchester Black Talon :cool:
The Black Talon is highly overrated. The original had a terrible track record of expansion after hitting cloth barriers.

At any rate, it never went away; it was immediately repackaged as “Ranger SXT” and “only sold to law enforcement” minus the black Lubalox coating.

SXT, by the bye, was an internal joke at Winchester; it stood for “Same eXact Talon”.

The newest iteration—Ranger-T—is light years better than the original Black Talon.
 
The Black Talon is highly overrated. The original had a terrible track record of expansion after hitting cloth barriers.

At any rate, it never went away; it was immediately repackaged as “Ranger SXT” and “only sold to law enforcement” minus the black Lubalox coating.

SXT, by the bye, was an internal joke at Winchester; it stood for “Same eXact Talon”.

The newest iteration—Ranger-T—is light years better than the original Black Talon.
Agree, extremely overrated, I also remember the Nyclad ammo was supposed to cut through bullet proof vests like a hot knife through butter, it didn’t, just media hype like the black talyn was, these were just a ploy from the anti gun crowd to start there crap early on. I now use Sig V-Crown for defense, seems to work ok so far.
 
Agree, extremely overrated, I also remember the Nyclad ammo was supposed to cut through bullet proof vests like a hot knife through butter, it didn’t, just media hype like the black talyn was, these were just a ploy from the anti gun crowd to start there crap early on. I now use Sig V-Crown for defense, seems to work ok so far.

Nyclad was the first version of what we call “coated” lead bullets today; just a polymer jacket over soft lead.

The Lubalox coating on the BT was just Molybdenum Disulfide, iirc…it was supposed to reduce fouling.
 
Nyclad was the first version of what we call “coated” lead bullets today; just a polymer jacket over soft lead.

The Lubalox coating on the BT was just Molybdenum Disulfide, iirc…it was supposed to reduce fouling.
I had a bunch of the Nyclad S&W 158gr .38spl with that coating back when S&W had made ammo, we used it in my dads S&W model 15
 
I personally think its shot placement vs round type.
In war, folks get hit with shrapnel from exploding munitions. That can cause severe wound channel or even loss of limbs. As much damage or more than a bullet.
Another view is rifle round hits to the body
Yet countless soldiers survive these wounds.
Why? Because of where on the body the wound was taken.
Another view. Look at all the deer hunters have to track down that ran hundreds of yards after taking a heavy caliber bullet round or arrow because of poor shot placement.

Do I want the best chance to take down an attacker. Sure I do. So I dont use 115 gr target rounds in SD guns.

I have no doubt a bullet is going thru normal clothing. I’ve seen all the videos of clothes put on pork and shot for testing.
All the bullets go thru the jackets and flannel shirts.

Do JHP’s offer better results?
Testing shows they can.
But if you hit someone with a double tap of JHP and its not a critical incapacitating shot, bullets not going to matter.
Well said sir. There's a lot of different factors whether a firearm round will be effective in stopping a lethal threat. Hence it's important to practice and utilize good equipment, good tactics, and the right mindset. Violence is messy mentally and physically. Few things are more humbling than seeing a person bleed out.
 
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