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Saint Victor .308 competition

@KillerFord1977

I own a Saint Edge Pistol, an M1A SOCOM16 and I just bought a Victor PDW. Aside from the PDW, and only because I haven't got it or shot it yet, I trust them with my life and the lives of those close to me. Taking them through combat and the abuse associated with Infantry Life is an entirely different animal and that is what the SIG 716I is designed to do. The SIG's 716I is heavier because it is built up, in order to survive years of troop abuse and actual combat. The rifle doesn't only need to be good, it needs to be tough and reliable, and do it for years to follow. At the time you wrote this thread India had already placed its order for the first 72,400 units to issue front line Infantry Soldiers along the Line of Control (LOC) with Pakistan and China. If you look up the LOC you'll find its an interesting place for sure!
So here's a rough timeline; India's original order was placed in February 2019. India received the first 10,000 units from SIG in December 2019. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. Just shy of 4 months after you OP'd this thread in July 2020, India doubled down and ordered their second batch of 72,000+ units. I wonder if @xdman can reach out to Springfield Armory to see if they've surpassed 144,000 units yet? So what competition are you claiming was won? The civilian market sales category?
Although this thread is entertaining, if Springfield had submitted a rifle for T&E it obviously wasn't selected. So what competition did the Saint .308 actually win? Respectfully the Saint Victor .308 is probably not the better gun. It is the lighter gun by 1.39lbs which is probably the weight difference between a barrel meant for business and a pencil barrel. It is the more expensive gun (SA$1499 vs SIG $1299) based off MSRP's, but is it really the better gun? I personally think the Saint Victor .308's are amazing guns, but I do not support your claim and believe it is a better gun than the SIG 716I Tread.
If you believe the Saint .308 is the better gun, I'll be your huckleberry! Please back your entries with some facts and let's bring this thread back to life.
Let's also see some of your amazing Saint Victor's. They are certainly amazing guns.
Here's my SIG 716I Tread
7.jpg
 
GLD1980 said:
@KillerFord1977

I own a Saint Edge Pistol, an M1A SOCOM16 and I just bought a Victor PDW. Aside from the PDW, and only because I haven't got it or shot it yet, I trust them with my life and the lives of those close to me. Taking them through combat and the abuse associated with Infantry Life is an entirely different animal and that is what the SIG 716I is designed to do. The SIG's 716I is heavier because it is built up, in order to survive years of troop abuse and actual combat. The rifle doesn't only need to be good, it needs to be tough and reliable, and do it for years to follow. At the time you wrote this thread India had already placed its order for the first 72,400 units to issue front line Infantry Soldiers along the Line of Control (LOC) with Pakistan and China. If you look up the LOC you'll find its an interesting place for sure!
So here's a rough timeline; India's original order was placed in February 2019. India received the first 10,000 units from SIG in December 2019. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. Just shy of 4 months after you OP'd this thread in July 2020, India doubled down and ordered their second batch of 72,000+ units. I wonder if @xdman can reach out to Springfield Armory to see if they've surpassed 144,000 units yet? So what competition are you claiming was won? The civilian market sales category?
Although this thread is entertaining, if Springfield had submitted a rifle for T&E it obviously wasn't selected. So what competition did the Saint .308 actually win? Respectfully the Saint Victor .308 is probably not the better gun. It is the lighter gun by 1.39lbs which is probably the weight difference between a barrel meant for business and a pencil barrel. It is the more expensive gun (SA$1499 vs SIG $1299) based off MSRP's, but is it really the better gun? I personally think the Saint Victor .308's are amazing guns, but I do not support your claim and believe it is a better gun than the SIG 716I Tread.
If you believe the Saint .308 is the better gun, I'll be your huckleberry! Please back your entries with some facts and let's bring this thread back to life.
Let's also see some of your amazing Saint Victor's. They are certainly amazing guns.
Here's my SIG 716I Tread
View attachment 19230
Click to expand...
Sig went through a tremendous amount of ā€œT& Eā€ testing to win a bid and a fat DOD contract. How did that work out ?
 
As of today, Midway lists the Sig for $1429 which is in stock, and the Springfield for $1452 which is not in stock. With so little difference in price how different can these two rifles actually be?
 
I ran out of time. My point isā€¦ The P320 is not as reliable and safe as we all thought. So donā€™t bank on those ā€œtestsā€.
 
SaltyMonkey252 said:
Sig went through a tremendous amount of ā€œT& Eā€ testing to win a bid and a fat DOD contract. How did that work out ?
Click to expand...
Maybe if a POS wasn't President and we were still MAGA, the US Military would still be getting wonderful new toys. It worked out well for the SIG 716I with India. It is making history for AR-308/ AR-10 type rifles with the largest deployment ever!
Recusant said:
As of today, Midway lists the Sig for $1429 which is in stock, and the Springfield for $1452 which is not in stock. With so little difference in price how different can these two rifles actually be?
Click to expand...
They appeal towards 2 differnt markets. The SIG is a no frills battle rifle which is also beautiful at the same time.
The Springfield Saint Victor is marketed to the needs of American MSR buyers where lightweight for shooting, hunting and protection is appealing. You can get more rifle for just a little more weight over the AR-15 with the Victor's.
The barrel on the SIG is carbon steel and fully nitrided to accommodate full auto firing in combat conditions. The SIG has a full length gas system aimed at offering a softer shooting smoother cycling 16" rifle when you get after it. The SIG Handguard is keyed to its upper for proper alignment and mounted using a cross-bolt clamping-system that secures it firmly to the top of the low-profile barrel-nut. It uses a Micro Light gas block that is non adjustable but pinned using two large pins. The BCG is MP tested and features 2 ejectors for increased reliability. The lower features an ambidextrous selector, magazine release, and q/d mounting cups along with a flared magwell and a full length AR-10 type RET. The only thing left to be desired that I found was a JP Enhanced Ignition Reliability Spring kit to lighten the trigger to around 4.5lbs and SIG's proprietary Ambidextrous Charging Handle.
The SIG716I Tread is currently the best AR-308/AR-10 type rifle for the money.

The Springfield Armory Saint Victor is also an amazing value and would be my second choice even over many more expensive rifles do to being built well and reliable. I've read numerous reviews claiming that although it is lightweight, recoil is fantastic and that it is very accurate and fun to shoot. I've heard no complaints! Springfield Armory tends to hit it out the Park quite often and the naysayers never want to acknowledge the quality. They whine about Springfield screwing over the 2A which frankly I'm tired of hearing. I love my Saint Edge Pistol and got jumped at AR15.COM for suggesting it was in the same league with DD, BCM and other top builds.
All that said the SIG 716I would emerge the Victor if this were a tussle IMO.
 
Do any of you have the Victor .308? Let's see that bad boy. Tell me why you love it. I want to find a Victor. 308 pistol at a normal price but that train has left the station it seems.
 
I hunted with a Remington 742 in 30.06 for over 40 years. I liked the idea of using the AR platform, so I got this Victor two years ago and have put it to good use. Even though it might not be built to GI specs neither was my 742, and I used it a long time without a hiccup. In reality most hunting rifles probably never have a hard life. Regardless of which rifle you fancy you had better get one while you can because I fear changes are coming.

saint 2.jpg
 
GLD1980 said:
Do any of you have the Victor .308? Let's see that bad boy. Tell me why you love it. I want to find a Victor. 308 pistol at a normal price but that train has left the station it seems.
Click to expand...

Here's mine. It's very lightweight, shoots well. Recoil is not what you would expect from a .308 round. Very little rise, mostly it recoils straight into you and its really not bad. It is definitely loud being that it's a 16" barrel. The muzzle break makes it a bit louder. Be courteous if shooting indoors. It moves directly adjacent paper targets and can definitely **** off other shooters. (I won't get into the fact that they are at a shooting range and this shouldn't be an issue for them.)

PXL_20210316_000024845.jpg
 
You guys have some sweet rifles. Besides the SIG M400 Special Editions like the new Switchblade Pistol or their discountinued VTAC Rifle, the best AR's in the game for the $$$ are the Springfield Armory Victor's, Edge's and Ruger's MPR 18" 5R. Funny thing is I've only heard the YouTube channel Honest Outlaw complain about a Springfield Saint. They are great guns.
 
GLD1980 said:
@KillerFord1977

I own a Saint Edge Pistol, an M1A SOCOM16 and I just bought a Victor PDW. Aside from the PDW, and only because I haven't got it or shot it yet, I trust them with my life and the lives of those close to me. Taking them through combat and the abuse associated with Infantry Life is an entirely different animal and that is what the SIG 716I is designed to do. The SIG's 716I is heavier because it is built up, in order to survive years of troop abuse and actual combat. The rifle doesn't only need to be good, it needs to be tough and reliable, and do it for years to follow. At the time you wrote this thread India had already placed its order for the first 72,400 units to issue front line Infantry Soldiers along the Line of Control (LOC) with Pakistan and China. If you look up the LOC you'll find its an interesting place for sure!
So here's a rough timeline; India's original order was placed in February 2019. India received the first 10,000 units from SIG in December 2019. The Springfield Armory Saint Victor .308 was announced 2 months after SIG had secured the sale with India in April 2019. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. Just shy of 4 months after you OP'd this thread in July 2020, India doubled down and ordered their second batch of 72,000+ units. I wonder if @xdman can reach out to Springfield Armory to see if they've surpassed 144,000 units yet? So what competition are you claiming was won? The civilian market sales category?
Although this thread is entertaining, if Springfield had submitted a rifle for T&E it obviously wasn't selected. So what competition did the Saint .308 actually win? Respectfully the Saint Victor .308 is probably not the better gun. It is the lighter gun by 1.39lbs which is probably the weight difference between a barrel meant for business and a pencil barrel. It is the more expensive gun (SA$1499 vs SIG $1299) based off MSRP's, but is it really the better gun? I personally think the Saint Victor .308's are amazing guns, but I do not support your claim and believe it is a better gun than the SIG 716I Tread.
If you believe the Saint .308 is the better gun, I'll be your huckleberry! Please back your entries with some facts and let's bring this thread back to life.
Let's also see some of your amazing Saint Victor's. They are certainly amazing guns.
Here's my SIG 716I Tread
View attachment 19230
Click to expand...
Apples to apples , the Victor and Sig716 are peer rifles. Both excellent quality.
govt contracts work on bid costs as we all know. Sig happen to win the Indian army contract. Springfield isnt into bidding on those contracts, so that rules out military use. There are better AR10ā€™s than both Sig and SA, but also $3000.

peer to peer, the Springfield was $300 cheaper and 1lb lighter than Sig.
Both use high quality barrels, bolts and other parts. Darn near peer on materials. Victor barrel is as high quality as Sig. I cannot run full auto rifle, so barrel finish is not of a concern to me. The Victor barrel will last well into my grandkids being able to use it long term.
The Victor 1lb less means a lot when you add a thermal, accessories and full 25 rd mag.

Iā€™m not paying the extra $ on the Sig name for the 716, just like Iā€™m not paying the extra $ for a HK AR15 variant.

So, I stand by my statement over a year ago. Peer rifle. Less weight. Less money.

my victor gets used. Monthly. Hog hunts non stop. Over 100 hogs down w the rifle. Mud, grit, sand, rain. All Environments I hunt in. Its been dropped in the mud when when it went down on a hog stalk and when I slipped in the rain. Barrel bore brush run thru for obstruction and killed several hogs within minutes. It performs.

you can hype your Sig all you want. Great gun, but the Victor is NOT inferior to it. Period. Plain and simple. Its a peer.
7977FF6E-2D46-4B37-AF64-ED5DC25CCB6C.jpeg
C093FB51-0887-44F5-8667-1A538AE45735.jpeg

AF9FBE88-4080-45EC-9E74-07A62141BEC4.jpeg
7B7E23A4-7E37-45F9-9C65-CF50D4FFDB19.jpeg
 
ddeuce22 said:
Here's mine. It's very lightweight, shoots well. Recoil is not what you would expect from a .308 round. Very little rise, mostly it recoils straight into you and its really not bad. It is definitely loud being that it's a 16" barrel. The muzzle break makes it a bit louder. Be courteous if shooting indoors. It moves directly adjacent paper targets and can definitely **** off other shooters. (I won't get into the fact that they are at a shooting range and this shouldn't be an issue for them.)
Click to expand...
Here are of AR 10 rifles they I have. The one on the bottom is the Remington R25. I bought it at the start of the pandemic because of the ammo shortage haven't put a scope on it yet. Incidentally, the iron sights that came off of the Victor fit the R25. I have commented before about how loud the Victor is when compared to my Remington 742.
Recently I bought a muzzle brake that is supposed to direct more noise out front, but I haven't put it on yet. Who thinks the camo pattern on the R25 makes it look less scary? :rolleyes:

IMG_1875.JPG
 
For my AR10 purchase I looked at several of the mainstream options, including SA & Sig, but went with a PSA PA10 for the following reasons.

1) Neither Sig nor SA offered an 18" or 20" barrel length, which for my longer-range AOPs the additional velocity is a factor. For my area a 16" barrel neuters the .308 too much. I went with an 18 although I wanted a 20 but that length wasn't available from PSA until recently.

2) I felt that PSA offered a more desirable ss fluted barrel which neither Sig nor SA did.

3) I liked the handguard on the PSA much better than either Sig or SA.

4) I like a real good trigger. PSA offered the PA10 with Geissele Super Semi-Automatic Enhamced Trigger (SSA-E) (a $240 trigger) that neither SA nor Sig did, at my purchase price which was well below what either SA or Sig does. This was a "major" plus compare to the other two.

5) I think PSA is under-rated, but they put alot of effort into their product line & customer service. Since there is no mil-spec for any AR10 brand I felt the PSA PA10 provided me with more value than the Sig or SA. While there are higher-end AR10 brand/models I think the PA10 is a good middle-market rifle and it shoots real well.

We all know likes & dislaikes are very individual, and any AR10 being offered is the same.

BTW, no matter which brand/mode out there I knew I'd have to upgrade any of them with the features I have come to want on an AR-type platform.

My .02

​

 
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KillerFord1977 said:
Apples to apples , the Victor and Sig716 are peer rifles. Both excellent quality.
govt contracts work on bid costs as we all know. Sig happen to win the Indian army contract. Springfield isnt into bidding on those contracts, so that rules out military use. There are better AR10ā€™s than both Sig and SA, but also $3000.

peer to peer, the Springfield was $300 cheaper and 1lb lighter than Sig.
Both use high quality barrels, bolts and other parts. Darn near peer on materials. Victor barrel is as high quality as Sig. I cannot run full auto rifle, so barrel finish is not of a concern to me. The Victor barrel will last well into my grandkids being able to use it long term.
The Victor 1lb less means a lot when you add a thermal, accessories and full 25 rd mag.

Iā€™m not paying the extra $ on the Sig name for the 716, just like Iā€™m not paying the extra $ for a HK AR15 variant.

So, I stand by my statement over a year ago. Peer rifle. Less weight. Less money.

my victor gets used. Monthly. Hog hunts non stop. Over 100 hogs down w the rifle. Mud, grit, sand, rain. All Environments I hunt in. Its been dropped in the mud when when it went down on a hog stalk and when I slipped in the rain. Barrel bore brush run thru for obstruction and killed several hogs within minutes. It performs.

you can hype your Sig all you want. Great gun, but the Victor is NOT inferior to it. Period. Plain and simple. Its a peer. View attachment 19252View attachment 19254
View attachment 19255View attachment 19256
Click to expand...
Your POV and perspective is solid. Your rifle is sweet, but the SIG doesn't cost more. It may be found now inflated due to COVID-19 but your gun costs more. I'm sure based on your experiences and successes with it to you it's the better gun. I can respect that. Beautiful gun and great rewards it brings you. Good post!
 
Sorry group I'm like a big kid and this thread needed pics! Now we got them coming in let's keep the stories coming! Great Pics!
@Talyn
Let's see that PA-10!
 
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