Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “B-25 Mitchell — Birth of a Gunship” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/b-25-mitchell/.
B-25 Mitchell — Birth of a Gunship
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
KillerFord1977
SAINT
Reading this article in a N Tx burb, and a local B-25 flew over as I’m reading it. Unmistakable growl of old 1940’s engines.
I’m going to buy a lottery ticket next
I’m going to buy a lottery ticket next
Snake45
Professional
And maybe a telephoto lens.Reading this article in a N Tx burb, and a local B-25 flew over as I’m reading it. Unmistakable growl of old 1940’s engines.
I’m going to buy a lottery ticket next
KillerFord1977
SAINT
HahaaAnd maybe a telephoto lens.
Cell phone pic as I was at my desk banging away on a excel spreadsheet and jumped up quick
Snake45
Professional
I mourn all the poor 1s and 0s that gave their lives so you could take and post that pic. If you'd said it was a UFO over your house, it would have been just as interesting. MORE interesting, come to think of it.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
I mourn all the poor 1s and 0s that gave their lives so you could take and post that pic. If you'd said it was a UFO over your house, it would have been just as interesting. MORE interesting, come to think of it.
I mourn all the poor 1s and 0s that gave their lives so you could take and post that pic. If you'd said it was a UFO over your house, it would have been just as interesting. MORE interesting, come to think of it.
HayesGreener
Ronin
Attachments
MrMichaelActual
Master Class
F-35's fly around here a lot also.Reading this article in a N Tx burb, and a local B-25 flew over as I’m reading it. Unmistakable growl of old 1940’s engines.
I’m going to buy a lottery ticket next
View attachment 42718
Annihilator
Emissary
Talyn
SAINT
Since the B-25G/H 75mm cannon version wasn't all that effective & well liked I'm surprised that they didn't try a version of the Bofors 40mm (? a modified US Army 40 mm/56.3 M1 with L/43 Barrel) since it had a higher rate of fire, in the position as the 75mm.
www.navweaps.com
75-mm Equipped B-25s
Arriving before the Battle of the Bismarck Sea [New Guinea], Fifth Air Force had also experimented with cannon-equipped B-25s. Pappy Gunn was one of the first to give it a try. Flying with the 90th BS, Gunn even scored an aerial victory with the cannon in July 1943:
In Colonel Don Hall's element there was a B-25 named Li'l Fox, the first B-25 in the theater to be fitted with a 75-mm. nose cannon. Pappy Gunn was piloting the flying artillery piece, and he had been waiting to try it out. Gunn also saw the Japanese transport plane turning toward the Cape Gloucester airstrip. Hall, not wanting to get in front of that cannon, was following Li'l Fox into the attack. The B-25s went in low just as the transport was about to touch down.
The big cannon boomed, the B-25 shuddered, and the Japanese plane burst into smoking wreckage. A second shell exploded among a group of about fifteen Japanese.
Men prefer 50 cal over 75-mm
Despite the dramatic aerial victory, however, the cannon was not particularly well suited for many of Fifth Air Force's missions. With Pappy Gunn still at the controls, his attacks on shipping targets proved much less successful:
"Two Jap destroyers just off Cape Gloucester looked to Pappy as if they were placed there for his especial benefit. Picking out the largest of the two vessels, Pappy scored seven hits with his 75-mm. cannon, but much to his disgust, the destroyer didn't even slow down. A 75-mm. gun, which, after all, fires a shell that is only about three inches in diameter, was not enough to worry a destroyer. The two B-25s flying on his wings then told Pappy please step aside while someone did the job who knew how it should be done. "
The consensus of opinion in the SWPA was that the B-25s were better off with the extra .50-caliber machine guns that the 75 mm cannon had replaced. The collection of .50 calibers was easier to aim and fire, putting more iron on the target. The cannon required significant sighting time, whereas pilots could aim the machine guns while they fired them. Additionally, the tremendous recoil of the cannon stressed the airframe, often causing it to buckle.
75-mm's Ground Pound Potential
The 75 mm cannon still provoked disagreement in the SWPA [South West Pacific Area (command)] . . . Although the 75 mm shells did little damage to most shipping, at least one report claims that they worked well against smaller land targets :
"We found that the cannon was more precise than a bomb for some targets, particularly bridges . . . A small bridge between 25 and 50ft long is not a very big target when you're making a sighting run from more than a mile away at treetop height of 50-70ft, but the 75mm gave us the opportunity of getting off anything from 3-10 rounds before we were too close in. Then we would start .50 cal strafing, winding up by toggling out whatever bombs we carried."
Company Said You Can Fire Twenty-One Shots Before It Jams, We Could Only Fire Four
North American-the cannon's manufacturer-claimed that it could fire higher numbers of rounds within a mile. According to one source, "all 21 rounds, the normal ammunition load carried, have been fired in one 5,000-yard approach." Operationally, "the crews in the Fifth still could not fire more than four rounds during a pass with the cannon, and the aiming requirements made it too vulnerable to ground fire." Even the increased accuracy offered by a well-aimed cannon round exposed crew members to unacceptable risk. A barrage of .50- caliber fire seemed preferable to a few well-placed cannon rounds, especially against ships
Most Men Don't Find 75-mm Interesting
"I understand that you are anxious to find out what we think of the B.25G, particularly in regard to the 75 mm. cannon installation.... The airplane came to us with only two .50 calibre guns mounted forward to help out the 75 mm cannon. I did not consider that this gave us enough volume of forward fire power to take on the deck armament of destroyers, light cruisers or the armed merchant vessels which constitute most of our shipping targets, so we have installed two more machine guns on the sides. Even this number is insufficient for the purpose and accordingly these two squadrons are being restricted to attacks on barges and luggers along the north coast of New Guinea and to furnishing support to ground troops.
While one or two of our naturally crack shots are rather enthusiastic about the cannon arrangement, the rank and file of the pilots are not. We have just about come to the conclusion that unless the 75 mm cannon is flanked by a minimum of six and preferably eight .50 calibre machine guns, the cannon installation is not worthwhile.... I am not enthusiastic about the 75 mm cannon. I would rather have the same amount of weight in .50 calibre machine guns. They throw much more weight of metal in a single run and so far we have had little trouble in beating down the deck fire of anything we attacked, up to and including the Japanese light cruiser. "
Men Reverting Back to 50 Cal
The addition of machine guns to the overall offensive package at least partially allayed Kenney's fears, but this solution proved insufficient. The power of forward-firing machine guns had become a Fifth Air Force standard, and the cannon simply could not match them. Many crews replaced the cannons themselves. B-25Hs "were soon modified to carry a nose armament of six machine guns, two replacing the cannon in its gaping tunnel. Cannon-armed B-25s were not only unpopular with aircrews, but also with the ground crewman who had to swarm over them tightening up screws after the gun had been fired on missions.
Above from...
My .02
.
USA Bofors 40 mm L/60 Model 1936 - NavWeaps
75-mm Equipped B-25s
Arriving before the Battle of the Bismarck Sea [New Guinea], Fifth Air Force had also experimented with cannon-equipped B-25s. Pappy Gunn was one of the first to give it a try. Flying with the 90th BS, Gunn even scored an aerial victory with the cannon in July 1943:
In Colonel Don Hall's element there was a B-25 named Li'l Fox, the first B-25 in the theater to be fitted with a 75-mm. nose cannon. Pappy Gunn was piloting the flying artillery piece, and he had been waiting to try it out. Gunn also saw the Japanese transport plane turning toward the Cape Gloucester airstrip. Hall, not wanting to get in front of that cannon, was following Li'l Fox into the attack. The B-25s went in low just as the transport was about to touch down.
The big cannon boomed, the B-25 shuddered, and the Japanese plane burst into smoking wreckage. A second shell exploded among a group of about fifteen Japanese.
Men prefer 50 cal over 75-mm
Despite the dramatic aerial victory, however, the cannon was not particularly well suited for many of Fifth Air Force's missions. With Pappy Gunn still at the controls, his attacks on shipping targets proved much less successful:
"Two Jap destroyers just off Cape Gloucester looked to Pappy as if they were placed there for his especial benefit. Picking out the largest of the two vessels, Pappy scored seven hits with his 75-mm. cannon, but much to his disgust, the destroyer didn't even slow down. A 75-mm. gun, which, after all, fires a shell that is only about three inches in diameter, was not enough to worry a destroyer. The two B-25s flying on his wings then told Pappy please step aside while someone did the job who knew how it should be done. "
The consensus of opinion in the SWPA was that the B-25s were better off with the extra .50-caliber machine guns that the 75 mm cannon had replaced. The collection of .50 calibers was easier to aim and fire, putting more iron on the target. The cannon required significant sighting time, whereas pilots could aim the machine guns while they fired them. Additionally, the tremendous recoil of the cannon stressed the airframe, often causing it to buckle.
75-mm's Ground Pound Potential
The 75 mm cannon still provoked disagreement in the SWPA [South West Pacific Area (command)] . . . Although the 75 mm shells did little damage to most shipping, at least one report claims that they worked well against smaller land targets :
"We found that the cannon was more precise than a bomb for some targets, particularly bridges . . . A small bridge between 25 and 50ft long is not a very big target when you're making a sighting run from more than a mile away at treetop height of 50-70ft, but the 75mm gave us the opportunity of getting off anything from 3-10 rounds before we were too close in. Then we would start .50 cal strafing, winding up by toggling out whatever bombs we carried."
Company Said You Can Fire Twenty-One Shots Before It Jams, We Could Only Fire Four
North American-the cannon's manufacturer-claimed that it could fire higher numbers of rounds within a mile. According to one source, "all 21 rounds, the normal ammunition load carried, have been fired in one 5,000-yard approach." Operationally, "the crews in the Fifth still could not fire more than four rounds during a pass with the cannon, and the aiming requirements made it too vulnerable to ground fire." Even the increased accuracy offered by a well-aimed cannon round exposed crew members to unacceptable risk. A barrage of .50- caliber fire seemed preferable to a few well-placed cannon rounds, especially against ships
Most Men Don't Find 75-mm Interesting
"I understand that you are anxious to find out what we think of the B.25G, particularly in regard to the 75 mm. cannon installation.... The airplane came to us with only two .50 calibre guns mounted forward to help out the 75 mm cannon. I did not consider that this gave us enough volume of forward fire power to take on the deck armament of destroyers, light cruisers or the armed merchant vessels which constitute most of our shipping targets, so we have installed two more machine guns on the sides. Even this number is insufficient for the purpose and accordingly these two squadrons are being restricted to attacks on barges and luggers along the north coast of New Guinea and to furnishing support to ground troops.
While one or two of our naturally crack shots are rather enthusiastic about the cannon arrangement, the rank and file of the pilots are not. We have just about come to the conclusion that unless the 75 mm cannon is flanked by a minimum of six and preferably eight .50 calibre machine guns, the cannon installation is not worthwhile.... I am not enthusiastic about the 75 mm cannon. I would rather have the same amount of weight in .50 calibre machine guns. They throw much more weight of metal in a single run and so far we have had little trouble in beating down the deck fire of anything we attacked, up to and including the Japanese light cruiser. "
Men Reverting Back to 50 Cal
The addition of machine guns to the overall offensive package at least partially allayed Kenney's fears, but this solution proved insufficient. The power of forward-firing machine guns had become a Fifth Air Force standard, and the cannon simply could not match them. Many crews replaced the cannons themselves. B-25Hs "were soon modified to carry a nose armament of six machine guns, two replacing the cannon in its gaping tunnel. Cannon-armed B-25s were not only unpopular with aircrews, but also with the ground crewman who had to swarm over them tightening up screws after the gun had been fired on missions.
Above from...
My .02
.
Last edited:
Talyn
SAINT
The above link....
Is titled - "A War of Their Own Bombers over the Southwest Pacific" by Mathew K. Rodman; Captain, USAF
Is titled - "A War of Their Own Bombers over the Southwest Pacific" by Mathew K. Rodman; Captain, USAF
Cedric
Master Class
Earth vs. the Flying Saucers. One of my favorites ever since I saw it as a kid. Have the DVD around here somewhere. Understand it provided the basic story line for Independence Day.
HayesGreener
Ronin
I am so weary of those spring loaded to be offended at something. It's our history for crying out loud.
www.stripes.com
Air Force Academy gets mixed reviews for football uniforms commemorating Doolittle Raid
The Falcons’ uniform honors the 80 pilots and crewmen of the Doolittle Raid, the flight of 16 B-25B Mitchell bombers launched from the aircraft carrier USS Hornet against targets in Japan on April 18, 1942.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
“Insensitive to Japan” was a comment…I am so weary of those spring loaded to be offended at something. It's our history for crying out loud.
Air Force Academy gets mixed reviews for football uniforms commemorating Doolittle Raid
The Falcons’ uniform honors the 80 pilots and crewmen of the Doolittle Raid, the flight of 16 B-25B Mitchell bombers launched from the aircraft carrier USS Hornet against targets in Japan on April 18, 1942.
Uhhh.. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on an unprovoked sneak attack .
Icepick Mike
Operator
Great article, just watched 30 Seconds Over Tokyo last night so this is the capper.
Jack trout
Alpha
My Grandfather was a tailgunner in the south pacific in a B 25 . Started out with twin 30s if I remember right they quickly switched to the 50s .
2 confirmed jap zero kills and many missions out of the Solomon Islands.
2 confirmed jap zero kills and many missions out of the Solomon Islands.
Icepick Mike
Operator
My Father was a gunner on a B24. Started out as a belly gunner cause he was short. Then they put him in the nose gunner position. He was on many of the big raids like the Schweinfurt ball bearing raids. When the German 262s came out he downed two of them. He said the pilots must have been rookies because they did a head on attack but sharply pulled up right in front of his guns exposing their bellies. He said a short burst of the 50s' and they both exploded. He was a hell of a guy.
Icepick Mike
Operator
Ditto, tired of the PC crowd and their absolute ignorance of our history.I am so weary of those spring loaded to be offended at something. It's our history for crying out loud.
Air Force Academy gets mixed reviews for football uniforms commemorating Doolittle Raid
The Falcons’ uniform honors the 80 pilots and crewmen of the Doolittle Raid, the flight of 16 B-25B Mitchell bombers launched from the aircraft carrier USS Hornet against targets in Japan on April 18, 1942.