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Ayoob: Will Carrying a 10mm Hang You in Court?

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BTB said:
However, the adrenaline rush and subsequent crash after the event *does* make the initial interview with subjects unreliable. I'm sure as a former LEO, you were probably trained on this, and that you must interview the person several times over a longer time period than the first hour after the event to develop a clear picture. Same with witnesses. This is the same reason why military AARs aren't filed immediately after the action. So, if you are in a situation where you have had to act in self defense with a firearm, the advice from counsel is always truthfully *qualify* your statements - "Sorry, I'm still shaking from all this, it's hard to breathe, I feel nauseous, (etc) - here is what I think happened, but I need to calm down so I can think clearly and give you an accurate account...". Face the questioner so their body cam can see your mouth move and so the audio is clear.

This also provides sufficient (honest, supportable) time to get your lawyer out of bed and by your side, and makes it clear that your initial statements aren't definitive, regardless of what the detective writes in his or her report.

A good lawyer who is experienced in self defense situations, when you *do* get to talk to them, will be able to understand this, and at trial walk the witnesses and jury through that process to establish that the later accounts of clear self defense are more accurate and reliable.
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Patrol usually takes the initial report at time of the incident. Detectives then get the case and can take further testimony. Depending on their caseload that can take time. Never worked Homicide, but as a Robbery detective, every morning I would arrive to find 5-6 new priority cases to handle.
 
3L120 said:
It all comes down to how the report was written.
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EXACTLY. Thats my point and report wont wait until the lawyer gets there. The Patrol guy writes the initial report (identifying Victim and Suspect) and nothing changes that after its submitted. The Patrol guy wants to go home. His job is to collect the initial data from the scene. If you fail to give him details theyll have to be added later assuming the evidence is still there to be collected and hasnt been removed by the suspects buddies.

Wait if you want but the only thing you can count on is the attorney will be sleeping in his bed that night...
 
I read all four pages before I responded.

1. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a cop, I've only ever been part of the jury pool once and I didn't even make it out of Voir Dire.

I have nothing to say about the legal aspects of this case that is worth reading.

After I read the whole story my biggest concern was "What happened to the dogs?"

Speaking as somebody who has had multiple encounters with bears in the wild and one in my backyard, if I was worried about bear defense I'd carry some UDAP before I'd carry a 10 mm.

Last thing, based on what I've read here, it was more the prosecutor who sunk Harold Fish than the gun.

It seems like if Fish wasn't carrying a 10 mm the prosecutor would have found something else to nail him on.
 
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Old_Me said:
yeah, but the caller saying he was attacked....would be the victim.

or did you just not "get that" in my posting..???
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If the criminal survived and is one of two callers saying they were attacked, and/or others didn't see the whole thing - those accounts to 911 are going to be different. Any responding LEO is going to be taking all 911 reports with a grain of salt until they get on the scene and establish whatever truth they can after they 1. Arrive, 2. Secure the scene, and 3 begin interviewing witnesses and those involved.
 
Personally, I think the USCCA is ridiculous way to spend 500.00+ for some kind of insurance that more then likely is going to be useless, sure you get a magazine and crap, my opinion is to have a good lawyer who is going to be more knowledgeable and helpful in case of an incident, but to each there own, not my place to judge others on what they believe.
 
Annihilator said:
Personally, I think the USCCA is ridiculous way to spend 500.00+ for some kind of insurance that more then likely is going to be useless, sure you get a magazine and crap, my opinion is to have a good lawyer who is going to be more knowledgeable and helpful in case of an incident, but to each there own, not my place to judge others on what they believe.
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Exactly. And a local lawyer is far better than an out-of-towner.
 
Old_Me said:
you get to have a lawyer of your choosing in your home state....
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So educate me. If the lawyer of my choice in my local county is not a part of the network of approved USCCA, then what?

USCCA will provide defense for any lawyer in my state? Or only those in their network?

And if they are anything like other insurance companies, the lawyer has to answer to an adjuster who is really calling the shots.
You see, a lawyer provided by your insurance is not always looking out for your best interest. His client is the carrier, not you.
 
Anchorite said:
So educate me. If the lawyer of my choice in my local county is not a part of the network of approved USCCA, then what?

USCCA will provide defense for any lawyer in my state? Or only those in their network?

And if they are anything like other insurance companies, the lawyer has to answer to an adjuster who is really calling the shots.
You see, a lawyer provided by your insurance is not always looking out for your best interest. His client is the carrier, not you.
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I was pondering the same questions, to me, all insurances are scams, yes I know you got the have them, house, car, life…..but if you never have a claim, they still have your money, just my thoughts
 
Annihilator said:
I was pondering the same questions, to me, all insurances are scams, yes I know you got the have them, house, car, life…..but if you never have a claim, they still have your money, just my thoughts
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Having done my share of insurance defense, I can assure you the carrier isn’t looking out for you.

And when you file a claim - any claim - you’re in the master index so you’ll be dropped most likely by your carrier at renewal and re-priced since you’ve filed a claim. They also pull your credit, a common practice to build your premium profile. What that has to do with your premiums and risk is a question only they can answer.
All sorts of stuff they do to decide how much blood to suck.

They don’t intend to pay claims. Period.

State Farm no longer writes property business south of I10 from Jacksonville to Houston. They denied so many property damage claims in the wake of storms it’s disgusting.
 
Anchorite said:
Having done my share of insurance defense, I can assure you the carrier isn’t looking out for you.

And when you file a claim - any claim - you’re in the master index so you’ll be dropped most likely by your carrier at renewal and re-priced since you’ve filed a claim. They also pull your credit, a common practice to build your premium profile. What that has to do with your premiums and risk is a question only they can answer.
All sorts of stuff they do to decide how much blood to suck.

They don’t intend to pay claims. Period.

State Farm no longer writes property business south of I10 from Jacksonville to Houston. They denied so many property damage claims in the wake of storms it’s disgusting.
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Yup! This is exactly why I recommend pre-paid legal services that cover a variety of things!
 
Anchorite said:
Having done my share of insurance defense, I can assure you the carrier isn’t looking out for you.

And when you file a claim - any claim - you’re in the master index so you’ll be dropped most likely by your carrier at renewal and re-priced since you’ve filed a claim. They also pull your credit, a common practice to build your premium profile. What that has to do with your premiums and risk is a question only they can answer.
All sorts of stuff they do to decide how much blood to suck.

They don’t intend to pay claims. Period.

State Farm no longer writes property business south of I10 from Jacksonville to Houston. They denied so many property damage claims in the wake of storms it’s disgusting.
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USCCA has everyone pay the same prices for the coverage they pick......

they "claim" they do not drop you, and frankly after being with them for 5 years now, and never had to call them for a lawyer, i hope to never find out.

unless YOU personally work for USCCA, you really need your sh!t together if you are going to denounce them......
 
Anchorite said:
So educate me. If the lawyer of my choice in my local county is not a part of the network of approved USCCA, then what?

USCCA will provide defense for any lawyer in my state? Or only those in their network?

And if they are anything like other insurance companies, the lawyer has to answer to an adjuster who is really calling the shots.
You see, a lawyer provided by your insurance is not always looking out for your best interest. His client is the carrier, not you.
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they send you, or you simply look up, lawyers in your area, under thier umbrella of ones IN YOUR AREA..

are you that dense of a person, or just generally an a-hole..????

you really are ignorant, aren't you..???
 
Not going to get into an argument on this, if you feel you need this so called insurance, then get it, all insurances, no matter what are all the same, you pay them money, if you never have a claim, they get rich, if you do have a claim, they always low ball you, some insurances you have to have, others are just if you feel you need it, but to me, USCCA goes on the line if you want it get it, if not, don’t get it, personally I rather have a attorney on waiver, then go deal with an organization, just my personal thoughts, like I said before, not my place or I would never tell anyone not to get it or to get it. If you feel more secure having it, then get it.
 
Annihilator said:
Not going to get into an argument on this, if you feel you need this so called insurance, then get it, all insurances, no matter what are all the same, you pay them money, if you never have a claim, they get rich, if you do have a claim, they always low ball you, some insurances you have to have, others are just if you feel you need it, but to me, USCCA goes on the line if you want it get it, if not, don’t get it, personally I rather have a attorney on waiver, then go deal with an organization, just my personal thoughts, like I said before, not my place or I would never tell anyone not to get it or to get it. If you feel more secure having it, then get it.
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you are correct sir..i will do me.

all others can "trust in God"
 
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