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Is there really that much difference

PieterCoetzee said:
Well I guess Im intentionally vague; but simply, bullet (hollow point) performance has greatly improved since as few as maybe 10 years ago and certainly since the 90s and that was an improvement over the 80s
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I, for one, am perfectly content with a solid-type projectile (HCSWC) in my 38Spl. I shoot hard cast in my 45 as well and a SWC in my 40s.

I ain't gotta worry about my HP failing to perform, or whatever it is they are supposed to do that a good old fashioned SWC or FP can't do.

The hard cast SWC is actually a pretty solid self defense load, as the profile has proven over and over to do a significant amount of damage when it hits actual flesh.
 
PieterCoetzee said:
Hmmmm? I wanna say yes but Im not convinced. Id say it depends on the situation. We all form opinions on our experiences. Mine was more urban than rural and I lived through the single attacker with a steak knife to the "groups" (because we werent allowed to say GANG). By the end of my career the lone suspect was replaced by 3s,and 4s, and 5s.....
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Find the data that says the number of shots in a gunfight/encounter expended by a defender are greater than 5.

I'm always on the lookout.

I know that Tom Givens (Memphis, TN), among the best living teachers in this era of modern gunfighting (and carries a G17, FWIW), surveyed 65 shootings over the years involving his students. He wrote about it in "FIGHTING SMARTER".

What Tom found:

3 encounters: Contact Distance
3 encounters: 5-7 yards
3 encounters: 15-25 yards
56 encounters: 3-5 yards

Shots Fired:
Low: 1
High: 11
Average 3.8
...no reloads.

62 out of 65 survived...the three who didn't DIDN'T have their gun with them when they got robbed...so 100% survival rate when armed. No need for a reload at they were UP CLOSE.

Now we're talking robberies here, a FTF encounter. A lot of folks post like they expect a Toyota Hilux to come flying around the corner stuffed with Hadjis armed to the teeth.

That's another thread (grin)!
 
Annihilator said:
tyre…..tyre…..🤔🤔
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That was the correct way to spell it before you yanks…oh, why do I bother?
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PieterCoetzee said:
Yes I do

I cant/wont argue stats with you, it sounds like youve got more than I can be bothered to search for or likely find That being said Ive seen more multiple suspects then singles. Bad guys survive because cops and good guys call medics. bad guys not so much
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I'm not naïve enough to think that bogies never run in multiples, but let's compare apples to apples.
I am a civilian. Not law enforcement.

I am not going to do stupid things that put me in unsafe environments. It's that simple. That means I am unlikely to encounter multiples, and if I do, it's because stuff has really gotten bad out there and I need much more than a handgun. I am not the tip of the spear. Other guys fantasize about that, and that's fine. But that's not me. I believe in tactics first, all else is second.

Your most important and deadliest weapon is the six inches between your ears.
 
Anchorite said:
Find the data that says the number of shots in a gunfight/encounter expended by a defender are greater than 5.

I'm always on the lookout.

I know that Tom Givens (Memphis, TN), among the best living teachers in this era of modern gunfighting (and carries a G17, FWIW), surveyed 65 shootings over the years involving his students. He wrote about it in "FIGHTING SMARTER".

What Tom found:

3 encounters: Contact Distance
3 encounters: 5-7 yards
3 encounters: 15-25 yards
56 encounters: 3-5 yards

Shots Fired:
Low: 1
High: 11
Average 3.8
...no reloads.

62 out of 65 survived...the three who didn't DIDN'T have their gun with them when they got robbed...so 100% survival rate when armed. No need for a reload at they were UP CLOSE.

Now we're talking robberies here, a FTF encounter. A lot of folks post like they expect a Toyota Hilux to come flying around the corner stuffed with Hadjis armed to the teeth.

That's another thread (grin)!
Click to expand...

I read there was one other student of Tom Givens who was also robbed. According to what I read the robber got the drop on him and he didn't have time to draw his gun. So he handed over his wallet and the robber left.
 
I don't know that I put a whole lot of thought into how much ammunition to carry. There's a quote from Masaad Ayoob in which he essentially says If the cops carry two reloads you should too.

This is the quote

Two complete reloads was standard equipment for most police officers before any of us here were born. If I was asked in court why I carry spare ammunition, my answer would probably be the same as my answer for why I load with hollow point ammunition:

"Sir, if the police determined it was the best thing to use to protect people such as myself and my family, it seemed obvious that it was the best thing for ME to carry to protect myself and my family."


I carry 2 reloads regardless what gun I'm carrying.
 
Here is a very good article that addresses this issue


QUOTE from the article

I thought back to the effects different pistol rounds having on animals, victim's of shootings, and Officer involved shootings that I had seen personally and read about during my career. I couldn't think of a single shooting where the person or animal was shot with a 9mm and lived, but would have died if the round would have been a .40S&W or a .45acp. And I could not think of a single shooting where a person or animal was shot with a .40S&W or a .45acp and died, but would have survived if the round would have been a 9mm.
 
I was lucky enough to have my church pay for professional training for the Security Team. I went to every single class they offered for several years.

One of the things that they stressed over and over and over again was The Instant the shooting was over you reload. If you only fired one shot you reload.

You can't do that if you don't have a second magazine.

At work my employer specified two reloads.

I got to work one night and as I got out of my car the magazine in my gun fell out of the gun and bounced off my foot.

I have no idea what caused it and in that instance I just picked up the magazine and made sure it was well seated.

That only happened one time ever in my life and I felt it bounce off my foot.

FB_IMG_1527660376644.jpg


What if it happened here and I couldn't find the magazine?

That's as good as any reason I think of to carry at least one reload.
 
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