Anchorite
Custom
Amen.
Is there really that much difference
- Thread starter PieterCoetzee
- Start date
PieterCoetzee
Custom
I do hear what your saying. Id only add that its VERY MUCH location dependent. I dont live in a city; but I do on occassion have to go to the city, and sadly sometimes at night. My kids live outside Baltimore City; but the lines on the map dont reflect the spreading city types.
My 3s. 4s. and 5s description applies to anywhere near a blue city. You can be pumping gas and have the "can I hold a dollar" types descend on you. That one is usually a guy and and his girl friend looking for $$$ to buy food or drugs....and then there are the more aggressive Banger types. Its like they are on some recon patrol looking for low hanging fruit.
The Night Rider
Hellcat
Good to know.
John Corriea has studied tens of thousands of videos of Citizen involved self-defense shootings. I think he said the number was greater than 40,000.
He also says that he is never ever ever seen a video that includes a citizen reload.
I believe him and I believe Givens.
I'm still going to carry a reload
I'll jump in here. It's been "busy" for me this week and somehow I missed this thread. I haven't caught up on reading all of the responses, but for what it's worth, here are my thoughts on carrying "extra" reloads / "extra" ammo / high-capacity handguns.
1) You cannot miss fast enough to win a fight. So no matter how many rounds are in your gun, on your belt, where ever, you must shoot them one at a time and get effective hits on target. Otherwise, you're just shooting to "feel good" and that will NEVER win a fight.
2) Extra magazines are important when carrying a pistol. A magazine is a mechanical device just like the rest of the gun. If your only magazine is in the pistol and it goes down, you go from a very effective semi-auto pistol to a cumbersome single shot. Not good. I know, I know, I posted a wise-crack tongue-in-cheek response in the "How many magazines do you carry?" thread. But when I'm carrying a pistol, I carry at least one extra ammo feeding device as insurance against mechanical failure. Second, extra magazines are a source of extra rounds that MIGHT (but most often not) be needed to "finish the fight".
3) When carrying a revolver, I'm far less concerned about mechanical failure of the "feeding device". I prefer to carry some extra rounds in either a speed loader, or my favorite, a speed strip. Usually when toting a revolver I only pack one extra reload. I avoid reliance on loose rounds in my pockets. Like my keys, they never seem to want to be found when really needed. Also, when training with my revolver, I practice getting one or two rounds into the cylinder and the gun back up and getting a round on the target just as much (or maybe more) than I practice full reloads. A revolver with one round in the cylinder is "loaded."
4) Consider carrying a second gun versus a plethora of magazines and/or ammo for your primary gun.
5) For a private citizen, when normal rule-of-law is in effect, an ammo loadout that compares to a soldier in combat just doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe put some reconsideration into where you go and what you're doing and make a few adjustments? Just sayin'. It's much better to avoid a fight whenever possible. A handgun on your person is, at best, a last-ditch tool to save your own (or another's) life under extreme circumstances. Train with your gun as if your life depends upon it each and every day. Expect trouble at any point in time and in every place you go. And pray that your training and mindset never have to be tested in real life by a person who is bent upon removing your choice in the matter.
6) For private citizen in a non-rule-of-law circumstance, a soldier or a LEO (both expected to run TOWARDS the fight), the context of this discussion is completely different. They still cannot miss fast enough to win, so effective hits on target are still necessary. It's just that they face a VERY HIGH likelihood of facing a plethora of targets that must be dealt with. Therefore, the ability to finish a protracted fight with multiple targets dictates the need for a greater ammo loadout and makes a higher capacity gun much more desirable.
7) Anyone, with a little google-foo, can find exceptions to any circumstance / situation. So, my thoughts on this topic might not agree with yours. Fine. You do you and go about armed and supplied in a manner that makes you comfy. I have no argument against that.
1) You cannot miss fast enough to win a fight. So no matter how many rounds are in your gun, on your belt, where ever, you must shoot them one at a time and get effective hits on target. Otherwise, you're just shooting to "feel good" and that will NEVER win a fight.
2) Extra magazines are important when carrying a pistol. A magazine is a mechanical device just like the rest of the gun. If your only magazine is in the pistol and it goes down, you go from a very effective semi-auto pistol to a cumbersome single shot. Not good. I know, I know, I posted a wise-crack tongue-in-cheek response in the "How many magazines do you carry?" thread. But when I'm carrying a pistol, I carry at least one extra ammo feeding device as insurance against mechanical failure. Second, extra magazines are a source of extra rounds that MIGHT (but most often not) be needed to "finish the fight".
3) When carrying a revolver, I'm far less concerned about mechanical failure of the "feeding device". I prefer to carry some extra rounds in either a speed loader, or my favorite, a speed strip. Usually when toting a revolver I only pack one extra reload. I avoid reliance on loose rounds in my pockets. Like my keys, they never seem to want to be found when really needed. Also, when training with my revolver, I practice getting one or two rounds into the cylinder and the gun back up and getting a round on the target just as much (or maybe more) than I practice full reloads. A revolver with one round in the cylinder is "loaded."
4) Consider carrying a second gun versus a plethora of magazines and/or ammo for your primary gun.
5) For a private citizen, when normal rule-of-law is in effect, an ammo loadout that compares to a soldier in combat just doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe put some reconsideration into where you go and what you're doing and make a few adjustments? Just sayin'. It's much better to avoid a fight whenever possible. A handgun on your person is, at best, a last-ditch tool to save your own (or another's) life under extreme circumstances. Train with your gun as if your life depends upon it each and every day. Expect trouble at any point in time and in every place you go. And pray that your training and mindset never have to be tested in real life by a person who is bent upon removing your choice in the matter.
6) For private citizen in a non-rule-of-law circumstance, a soldier or a LEO (both expected to run TOWARDS the fight), the context of this discussion is completely different. They still cannot miss fast enough to win, so effective hits on target are still necessary. It's just that they face a VERY HIGH likelihood of facing a plethora of targets that must be dealt with. Therefore, the ability to finish a protracted fight with multiple targets dictates the need for a greater ammo loadout and makes a higher capacity gun much more desirable.
7) Anyone, with a little google-foo, can find exceptions to any circumstance / situation. So, my thoughts on this topic might not agree with yours. Fine. You do you and go about armed and supplied in a manner that makes you comfy. I have no argument against that.
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Yeah I get carrying a spare but I have to admit I get a chuckle in dudes running a 17/21 round compact 9 with 3-5 extra 17-21 round spare mags
Like has been stated you can’t miss fast enough and for those of us that are deliberate shooters (ie make accurate hits at the .40-.50 instead of going cyclic) is more relevant than a ton of extra rounds
Retired Bum
Elite
As a civilian now, I think less about returning fire, and more about getting the heck out of the area. It isn't that I won't, but a dead hero is still dead.
I used to be paid for running into the hot zone, now I get a pension for my efforts and to stay out of the way.
I used to be paid for running into the hot zone, now I get a pension for my efforts and to stay out of the way.
Anchorite
Custom
Well said, and I agree.
Two schools of thought going on here .... LEO/ex-LEO and civilian. Both correct, both sensible.
Anchorite
Custom
Ain't nuffin' wrong with dat!
I worked for a movie theatre for a decade. It constantly pissed off my boss that I wrote it theatre. Ah good times lol.
It's supposed to be "spael", not "speel"I just always wrote movie house because I couldn't speel that theter
word.
Biggfoot44
Custom
In my parts , all you need to face multiple BG , is to buy gas .
SOP for carjacking is for 2 or 3 guys to pop out of slow moving ( stolen) getaway vehicle with guns in hand .
Biggfoot44
Custom
In my parts , all you need to face multiple BG , is to buy gas .
SOP for carjacking is for 2 or 3 guys to pop out of slow moving ( stolen) getaway vehicle with guns in hand .
PieterCoetzee
Custom
Im not arguing the guys who study events, heck I study history; because I wasnt there. No doubt theres something to be learned; but when I see proclamations based on those events without historical significance, I shudder. Are guys who attack a ship at harbor, patriots or terrorists? It kinda depends on the detail of the event. Its those details that matter. A homeowner who shoots a burglar is not the same as a guy at a gas station or a liquor store owner repelling a robbery. Lumping them together is poor statistical analysis
Theres the Joe B solution of a double barrel shotgun is enough because all you need to do is fire a shot out the window AND the guy who carries a S&W 500 with 3 speed loaders. At this point I dont care what others carry but I do find amusement on both ends of the spectrum
I think its a personal decision that you make each day. You may be right and one day you might be wrong
Theres the Joe B solution of a double barrel shotgun is enough because all you need to do is fire a shot out the window AND the guy who carries a S&W 500 with 3 speed loaders. At this point I dont care what others carry but I do find amusement on both ends of the spectrum
I think its a personal decision that you make each day. You may be right and one day you might be wrong
OK. So from now on I carry an AR slung onto my body in combat ready mode when I go buy gas? Or maybe I get a little more choosy about when and where I buy gas?
Sorry 'bout that... Just busting your chops a little.
I get what you're saying. Parking at a gas pump and dismounting from your vehicle instantly places one in a rather vulnerable spot with little to maneuver. In populous urban and suburban areas, it can be hazardous.My standard safety practices when gassing up my vehicle are: 1) Be choosy about when and where I purchase gas, 2) Position my vehicle so that the driver door is clear of the pump itself and any of those pesky concrete & steel protection posts. 3) Maximize the distance between my vehicle and the pump. Most people park much closer than necessary 4) Chamber a round in my AR (just kidding, but I DO make certain that my carry gun is readily accessible) and lastly, 5) Keep my head on a swivel while dismounted. Go to an elevated alert level and STAY OFF my cotton pickin' cell phone. I keep it handy, but I don't actually use it while dismounted.
Retired Bum
Elite
Remember that when you are pumping gasoline, the station has given you an excellent self defense tool. Most characters are afraid of getting hosed down with gasoline and I don't think I would mind paying for a little bit more fuel than what gets to my tank.
Defense tools include more than firearms.
Defense tools include more than firearms.
Anchorite
Custom
Ya, this.OK. So from now on I carry an AR slung onto my body in combat ready mode when I go buy gas? Or maybe I get a little more choosy about when and where I buy gas?
Sorry 'bout that... Just busting your chops a little.
My standard safety practices when gassing up my vehicle are: 1) Be choosy about when and where I purchase gas, 2) Position my vehicle so that the driver door is clear of the pump itself and any of those pesky concrete & steel protection posts. 3) Maximize the distance between my vehicle and the pump. Most people park much closer than necessary 4) Chamber a round in my AR (just kidding, but I DO make certain that my carry gun is readily accessible) and lastly, 5) Keep my head on a swivel while dismounted. Go to an elevated alert level and STAY OFF my cotton pickin' cell phone. I keep it handy, but I don't actually use it while dismounted.
No question gas stations and truck stops are buffets for criminals. Choose wisely.
We could do an entire thread on gas station safety and tactics, I'm sure.
Be smart, stay alert of your surroundings.
Jsimon78
Professional
I totally agree. I’ll use a pump in my favor even if gas is over 4 dollars a gallon where I’m at.
PieterCoetzee
Custom
Especially if they want to shoot. Its like introducing them to high school chemistry (fumes plus spark equals toasted hood rat) break out the marshmallows
PieterCoetzee
Custom
You know I really hope this never happens; but I will be asking the gas station owner for a copy of the video. Ill be the guy dancing like its 1985.....