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Full length guiderods

RedGoat said:
Thank you for the additional info. Yeah, that's another advantage for the GI guide rod system in my book. Springs for it are relatively inexpensive and there's no excuse to try and squeeze extra round count out of a spring that's about gone. Regular replacement is the way to go.

Question: Can you describe the points within the gun where you've observed battering or damage and what the damage actually amounted to?

Way back when (I'm talking about mid-1960s to early 70s) the common claim was that the lower reciever/frame would suffer cracks at the corners (right where the front end of the slide raceway ends) from battering. I've personally seen a couple with cracks, but they had tens of thousands upoon tens of thousands of rounds through them. They'd also been rebuilt a time or two at least. They were no longer "pretty" but were still running. Did they crack from the stress of an extremely high round count or from battering? I dunno. I think that a reasonable argument could be made either way.

I've also seen one other very high mileage 1911 (it was Jason Burton's personal beater that he showed us in his Advanced 1911 Diagnostics class) that had a frame crack. It was in a weird place (I honestly can't remember the precise location). It is also still in service despite that crack.
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Brother has a Colt series 70 he got used, shoots it occasionally, excessive battering, peening where slide hits the frame during recoil, you can actually see and feel it on the lower dust cover on the frame just ahead of the trigger guard is slightly deformed due to battering, we installed a 18 1/2 pound spring in it. We sat the old spring next to a new 16lb spring and the old one was almost half inch shorter then the new one, we determined it still had the original spring from factory……
 
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Annihilator said:
Brother has a Colt series 70 he got used, shoots it occasionally, excessive battering, peening where slide hits the frame during recoil, you can actually see and feel it on the lower dust cover on the frame just ahead of the trigger guard is slightly deformed due to battering, we installed a 18 1/2 pound spring in it. We sat the old spring next to a new 16lb spring and the old one was almost half inch shorter then the new one, we determined it still had the original spring from factory……
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Thanks for the specifics. It sounds to me as if you're describing either the area of the frame that's called the VIS (Vertical Impact Surface). If its the VIS, then it is actually the rear side of the lower barrel lug (the "feet") which contacts this area whenever the slide travels fully to the rear. It is actually the surface which is intended to stop the rearward motion of the barrel. However, I suppose that a weak action spring might allow just enough extra rearward velocity to do some damage at that point.
 
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RedGoat said:
Thanks for the specifics. It sounds to me as if you're describing either the area of the frame that's called the VIS (Vertical Impact Surface). If its the VIS, then it is actually the rear side of the lower barrel lug (the "feet") which contacts this area whenever the slide travels fully to the rear. It is actually the surface which is intended to stop the rearward motion of the barrel. However, I suppose that a weak action spring might allow just enough extra rearward velocity to do some damage at that point.
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IMG_5170.jpeg

First pic is where most of the battering and peening will occur, circled in blue



Second pic is where my brothers Colt had visible distortion from battering, you could see it and actually feel it, circled in blue.
IMG_5171.jpeg
 
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Thank you for sharing the pictures.

Wowsers... The area you've circled in blue (top picture) is actually called the "barrel bed". That's where the barrel rests whenever the barrel unlocked from the slide and the bottom of the barrel feet are not resting on the slide stop cross pin. When you hear the "clink" sound as you pull the slide back, that's the sound of the belly of the barrel falling down and resting on this surface. The vertical impact surface (VIS) is also within the area you've circled, but it's not really visible from the angle in the photo. This is the first time I've seen (or heard of) frame battering on the barrel bed surface... There's a first time for everything, I guess.

Does your brother have any info on the history of that gun? It looks like it might've been worked on a bit. The edges and corners of the frame exterior look like they've been "dehorned" quite a bit, even the edges of the trigger guard look slightly rounded. They don't look as clean and sharp as a "normal" Colt 1911. It might just be the photos, sometimes it's hard to tell.
 
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On a 4.5"+ gun? No.

4" to 4.5"? Push.

sub-4"? Probably….have to try it out for function.

I've never liked full length guide rods---however back in the 80's they were integral to some compensator systems---Wilson's Accucomp for example.

I remember Jim Hoag had some reason for using them with long slide 1911's--something about the extra length of the spring potentially kinking up or something, but I seem to remember that he used them with 6" guns; IIRC neither Wilson nor Jim Clark did with their long slides.

Also there was a company in the early 80's that made a specially heavy rod specifically for muzzle-rise retardation. I don't remember the name of the company, but it was just prior to compensators becoming de rigueur in IPSC circles.

Someone (I'm pretty sure that it was Charlie Kelsey @ Devel) made one that supposedly provided an up-pressure on the bushing which supposedly improved accuracy---obviously it didn't succeed. I still have one in the original package, I'll see if I can find it tonight.

Bottom line, they may play some minor role, but for the most part they're an answer in search of a question and may likely be more trouble than they're worth, IMO, because they introduce into the design something not original.

Consider that even some of the tightest, most accurate guns, like the 1.5" Baers, use regular guide rods.
 
RedGoat said:
Thank you for sharing the pictures.

Wowsers... The area you've circled in blue (top picture) is actually called the "barrel bed". That's where the barrel rests whenever the barrel unlocked from the slide and the bottom of the barrel feet are not resting on the slide stop cross pin. When you hear the "clink" sound as you pull the slide back, that's the sound of the belly of the barrel falling down and resting on this surface. The vertical impact surface (VIS) is also within the area you've circled, but it's not really visible from the angle in the photo. This is the first time I've seen (or heard of) frame battering on the barrel bed surface... There's a first time for everything, I guess.

Does your brother have any info on the history of that gun? It looks like it might've been worked on a bit. The edges and corners of the frame exterior look like they've been "dehorned" quite a bit, even the edges of the trigger guard look slightly rounded. They don't look as clean and sharp as a "normal" Colt 1911. It might just be the photos, sometimes it's hard to tell.
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That’s not his gun in pics, I just grabbed those off the web to show you where battering may occur, he bought it off a an older man back in the 90’s, original owner of it,
 
bc22wm said:
If it works, DON'T fix it. JMHO. I remember when full length guide rods were all the rage. If I think back that far correctly, they were sold as more reliable. Can't say as I remember any difference one way or the other.
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It's been a topic for debate for as long as I can remember. Kinda like the 9mm vs 40 S&W vs 45 ACP debate (I say, "Collect and shoot them all!")
 
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