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Smaller Guns for Defense?

RedGoat said:
I wear blue jeans all day every day. It's tough to find those with 1) pockets generous enough to even HOLD a pocket gun, 2) pocket openings which will permit withdrawing your hand while grasping your gun. I don't wear them for style, it's just what I've worn my entire life and I'm not about to change now.

The squarish shape of even the smallest auto pistol makes pulling it from the jeans pocket more difficult than getting a "hammerless" revolver out. Plus, the "curvy" print of a revolver in the pocket is far more "natural" / "organic" in appearance than the squarish line of an auto pistol.

For looser fitting garments (I'm thinking coats, BDU style pants, etc), the auto pistol can work just fine. Just be certain to have it holstered in something that will hold it in the intended position. Nothing is scarier than reaching into your pocket to pull out your gun and finding that it has inverted itself, holster and all, and having to pull it out muzzle first, knowing that there is a "live torpedo in the tube."
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Phlster Enigma + bodyguard 2.0. You can wear it all day everyday with literally any clothing. It's completely clothing agnostic. Wear your skirt or kilt and still be well armed.

You'll forget it's there. I carry a larger Shield X with a light in an Engima and I forget it's there everyday. It's that comfortable.
 
And it goes to all your points about the gun being in the same place every time for a reliable draw. The Enigma enabled that so much more because it keeps the gun in the same spot and eliminates all variables in pants and clothing pockets.
 
MiataMinded said:
Phlster Enigma + bodyguard 2.0. You can wear it all day everyday with literally any clothing. It's completely clothing agnostic. Wear your skirt or kilt and still be well armed.

You'll forget it's there. I carry a larger Shield X with a light in an Engima and I forget it's there everyday. It's that comfortable.
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I've experimented with such holsters. My tactical donut doesn't play well with them. I can make it work, but it's not the right solution for me. Also, there is a weight limit that such holster setups will hold up well with. I'll go out on a limb and say that anything exceeding 20 oz. loaded weight is gonna be a problem.
 
RedGoat said:
I've experimented with such holsters. My tactical donut doesn't play well with them. I can make it work, but it's not the right solution for me. Also, there is a weight limit that such holster setups will hold up well with. I'll go out on a limb and say that anything exceeding 20 oz. loaded weight is gonna be a problem.
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I'm like 99% sure a BG2.0 is less than that fully loaded. I've got a bit of a gut myself but a small pad alleviates my only hotspot.
 
Bottom line here is that every person who carries must decide what is "right" for them. If one is "smart" about it, one will take into consideration their daily pattern of life, daily clothing choices, and so forth. What's "right" for one person to carry and how to carry it is probably NOT the "right" choice for others.

I have a number of readily available options regarding what firearm(s) I carry each day. AND I have several bins of holsters to select from. What I carry NOW and how I carry it NOW is what is best for me at the present time. But there's no way that I can say definitively that anyone who chooses differently is wrong in their choices.
 
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RedGoat said:
It isn't? LOL. It certainly is if one is a "concealed carry" optimist! :cool: :rolleyes:
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Even with the holster you're at right around 20oz I'm sure. And besides that's weird cut off to have. It's more about properly positioning and having support in the right places.
 

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I have a drawer full of holsters myself as well. It's a sign of trial and error until you get it just right for your body and gun. It's a good thing unlike what anyone may tell you. And after my long search, a Phlster Enigma and 4bros Kydex performs at the level I'd expect.

I can run, jump, flip over, stand up, sit down, kneel and pray all without worrying about my gun. That's the level I expect for 24/7 CCW. The gun should always be there but never in the way. And as someone who doesn't wear pants with a belt often, the Enigma is quite literally holster perfection.
 
MiataMinded said:
Even with the holster you're at right around 20oz I'm sure. And besides that's weird cut off to have. It's more about properly positioning and having support in the right places.
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I have owned a large variety of what are commonly called "mouse" guns, both in revolvers and pistols. I've also owned a large number of slightly larger versions. I've actually gone through the exercise of meticulously weighing each in its fully loaded state. Then, I tried carrying them in a "holster" setup such as is under discussion. For me, I found that when the weight of what I was experimenting with actually carrying approached or exceeded about 20 oz, said firearm just did not work well for ME in that type of carry gear. Your mileage may vary.
 
MiataMinded said:
... that's weird cut off to have. It's more about properly positioning and having support in the right places.
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You are certainly correct about the "having support in the right places." Body type and carry position play a huge part in how well a gun of a given size and weight will "stay put" when carried in certain holster types.

I will say this about the particular holster setup you've mentioned: It looks like it will do the job, and it appears to be quite well thought out. I'll admit that I've not owned and used that particular holster, so my opinion is really just "second hand" based upon reviews, advertisement, and actual usage reports such as yours.

In general, however, based upon my experience with the more-than-a-few carry rig/gun combos I HAVE owned and tried where the gist of the setup is some sort of "belt" mechanism strapped around the mid-line of the body, independent of pants belt loops and/or some sort of suspenders or tie-down mechanism, I'll stand by my approximate 20 oz "cutoff" for ME for THAT type of carry.
 
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RedGoat said:
Bottom line here is that every person who carries must decide what is "right" for them. If one is "smart" about it, one will take into consideration their daily pattern of life, daily clothing choices, and so forth. What's "right" for one person to carry and how to carry it is probably NOT the "right" choice for others.

I have a number of readily available options regarding what firearm(s) I carry each day. AND I have several bins of holsters to select from. What I carry NOW and how I carry it NOW is what is best for me at the present time. But there's no way that I can say definitively that anyone who chooses differently is wrong in their choices.
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Which is why anybody that serious carries has a “holster box” full of assorted “good ideas” that just didn’t work out for them. Add in the fact that such folks also tend to to have an, umm, “assortment” off handguns and the situation gets serious🙄
 
MiataMinded said:
I have a drawer full of holsters myself as well. It's a sign of trial and error until you get it just right for your body and gun. It's a good thing unlike what anyone may tell you. And after my long search, a Phlster Enigma and 4bros Kydex performs at the level I'd expect.
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Yes! My point exactly. One doesn't actually KNOW for certain what will work for YOU until you actually USE the given gun / carry rig combo. And by USE, I mean...

MiataMinded said:
I can run, jump, flip over, stand up, sit down, kneel and pray all without worrying about my gun. That's the level I expect for 24/7 CCW. The gun should always be there but never in the way.
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proven by actually carrying the combo day in and day out, day after day, for a length of time that actually requires marking a few "X"s on the calendar. THEN and ONLY then can one say for certain that the combo "works" or "doesn't work" for yourself.


MiataMinded said:
And as someone who doesn't wear pants with a belt often, the Enigma is quite literally holster perfection.
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And that is the ultimate goal. Find a combo that works for YOU, the person who must tote that hunk of metal (and in some cases, polymer) daily under all the conditions and situations which you find yourself going through.
 
The more I think about this topic, the more I just think it's framed from the wrong angle. The discussion should be much more about holsters and how you carry on your body than the size of the gun.

The holster, positioning and things like clips/belts matter so much more than anything about the gun itself.

We should have much more open discussion about *those* things than about any particular gun being the *right gun*.

Because as it stands I can competently conceal carry a ~4in barrel 9mm with 15-20rd capacity and an optic and a WML without any reservations and it should be that way for everyone with a bit of practice and gear refinement. And I can do it completely agnostic of my clothing.
 
MiataMinded said:
The more I think about this topic, the more I just think it's framed from the wrong angle. The discussion should be much more about holsters and how you carry on your body than the size of the gun.

The holster, positioning and things like clips/belts matter so much more than anything about the gun itself.

We should have much more open discussion about *those* things than about any particular gun being the *right gun*.

Because as it stands I can competently conceal carry a ~4in barrel 9mm with 15-20rd capacity and an optic and a WML without any reservations and it should be that way for everyone with a bit of practice and gear refinement. And I can do it completely agnostic of my clothing.
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You aren't wrong in this matter!

This is a topic which is frequently discussed ad nauseam in many places. Because choice of clothing, choice of carry rig, and choice of gun selection are all highly personal choices, it is often a very controversial discussion.

I believe it was in something that Maas Ayoob wrote where I first read about the notion of "pick a gun and carry rig, then dress around those choices. If your clothing choice is imposed by some special circumstance, then dress as dictated then pick your gun and carry rig to fit your manner of dress."
 
RedGoat said:
You aren't wrong in this matter!

This is a topic which is frequently discussed ad nauseam in many places. Because choice of clothing, choice of carry rig, and choice of gun selection are all highly personal choices, it is often a very controversial discussion.

I believe it was in something that Maas Ayoob wrote where I first read about the notion of "pick a gun and carry rig, then dress around those choices. If your clothing choice is imposed by some special circumstance, then dress as dictated then pick your gun and carry rig to fit your manner of dress."
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I Mr. ayoob is mostly correct but this was before the age of 3d printing and modern materials science. How you dress is much less important with the advent of rigs like the Enigma. No longer do you need a belt or jacket to conceal a shoulder rig etc.

One can easily conceal carry in a Formal dress especially as a female or competently carry a gun IWB with basketball shorts. How you dress is less important with the proper preparation put into your rig.
 
MiataMinded said:
I Mr. ayoob is mostly correct but this was before the age of 3d printing and modern materials science. How you dress is much less important with the advent of rigs like the Enigma. No longer do you need a belt or jacket to conceal a shoulder rig etc.

One can easily conceal carry in a Formal dress especially as a female or competently carry a gun IWB with basketball shorts. How you dress is less important with the proper preparation put into your rig.
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I hereby validate your choice of holster! It's a GREAT choice! I am trying to convey that I AGREE with your choice.
 
I have TINY guns, I like TINY guns, I sometimes carry a TINY gun; but I dont know anyone who shoots them nearly as well as a "regular gun". So that begs the question WILL the tiny guns you carry (because its better than not having a gun), really serve you when you need a gun.

Can you make head shots at 15 yards with it? Can you make body shots at 50 yards? Or do you only plan on needing it a bad breath distance?
 
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