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At what point?

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PieterCoetzee

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So this is a fictional scenario thing and Ill let you modify it for your situation. The question is "At what point do you intercede?" "At what point do you step up and say enough?" There are no universal right or wrong answers here, Each of us has to decide based on our own situation.

Your riding a subway and you see a couple of thugs, harassing the the riders. You see them walk up to a kid and rip the headphones from his head an steal his cell phone. Is that enough to have you say "NO" ?

You pull into your favorite Walmart parking lot and you see two thugs beating up a teenager, whos trying to fight back. Do you just "walk on by", call 911 and expect the kid to wait for help from the PD?

You see the same two thugs slapping a woman and pull her towards the alley and it looks like one has a knife. Is that where you get involved?

Yore walk into a convivence store to pay for gas and grab a coffee and you realize the store is being robbed and you see the thugs pistol whip the clerk because shes too slow

Do you step up OR wait until they are attacking YOU?

Are any of the above a where situation you would draw a weapon?
 
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Depends entirely on the situation and my mood at the time. If unsure of what's happening, I'll move on.
I know of an incident where in a public place, a man and woman were arguing loudly and it got physical with the male beating on the female. A well meaning bystander got involved to help the woman. Turns out that the fighting couple were married and the female "victim" turned on her would be rescuer with a vengeance! :eek:
Being the hero doesn't always work out. :rolleyes:
 
Hmmmm? Both of you guys made good points. Maybe not self defense but defense of others

In the first one (subway) you witnessed a robbery with force, So Hmmm? maybe saying something like leave that kid alone? Does that bring the attention to YOU and then when they attack you, its OK to react? IDK?

In the second one (two thugs beating up a kid in the parking lot). It sounds like disparaging force on one victim; but again IDK? Maybe at least shouting WTF?

In the third one (two thugs hitting a woman and dragging her towards an alley). Im trying to envision something that ISNT going to be bad for the woman. Soooo maybe(?) this one seems like its at least a say something and maybe (?) more ???

The convivence store robbery (with physical violence) IS a Heaven tapped you on the shoulder situation IF its me, it ends with a mag change and a cup of coffee; but your input may vary. If so why?

All these can be modified by you having family with you, or your physical condition; but please dont say because it would make you late to work...
 
Uh, no, I don't get involved unless I am threatened.

Furthermore, I live my life at condition yellow, so I wouldn't think I would find myself in scenario #1, #3, or #4 at any time, ever.

In your fantasy scenario #2, we have so much activity at my local Wal Mart(s) that if I do find myself there, I certainly won't be the only witness (including the cameras), so I'm minding my own business.

PieterCoetzee said:
My point here is to make us think about why we carry and at what point the world comes to us?
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What makes you think we have anything more than a moral obligation to defend others?
 
not to be harsh or mean
but if the people are not part of my orbit , i would not insert ME into the mix, unless i was directly in the line of fire as it were

not to say i would sit idly by, but my life is important to ME.
this day in age risking mine for a complete stranger would take some serious serious danger for the attacked person to be in
now if i saw RAPE, i would be helpful post haste pew pew

but in the end obligation to come to the aid of a person being harmed is a moral question and answer you have to have with yourself at the time in speedy fashion
 
Anchorite said:
Uh, no, I don't get involved unless I am threatened.
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powerboatr said:
not to be harsh or mean
but if the people are not part of my orbit , i would not insert ME into the mix, unless i was directly in the line of fire as it were
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You guys may be right for YOU. Thats not up to me to decide; but Ill ask this, if you turn away because they arent you or your family; then what happens when it IS your family that someone else sees being attacked and they say, "its not MY family"

Im NOT saying you are wrong; but Ive always liked this poem:

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
 
PieterCoetzee said:
You guys may be right for YOU. Thats not up to me to decide; but Ill ask this, if you turn away because they arent you or your family; then what happens when it IS your family that someone else sees being attacked and they say, "its not MY family"

Im NOT saying you are wrong; but Ive always liked this poem:

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
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right now, i just dont know
i imagine if we lived in a different area that was just plain hostile, it surely would be different
i know inside seeing a person being accosted would cause my inner sheep dog to come alive
where you live and travel makes a world of difference imo
 
I'm torn on this one. God knows times I've seen horrific crime footage on the news, like that young lady on the subway that was stabbed to death, I wish I had been there to take that animal out with my bare hands. There have been times I've watched a situation to make sure it didn't continue to escalate (probably would've just called the police). There have been times I just walked on by and minded my own business (gangbangers fighting).
 
I hear you. When gangs fight thats just bleach in the gene pool and I dont get excited.

I want to say when I see the above scenarios, I want to step in, at least with a shout to "stop that shite" but the robbery for me is a most definitely "empty cases on the ground" incident, and likely the woman being dragged into the alley too.
 
What makes you think we have anything more than a moral obligation to defend others?
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BINGO!
Seriously, @PieterCoetzee are you anxious to spend hard earned money defending yourself in a civil suit?
I'm all about defending MYSELF, that's it. I'm not going to insert myself in anyone else's problems with the exception of being a witness for and or against them at trial.
I just don't understand your logic🤷🏼‍♂️ Unless I've got my back against the wall, my family and I are exiting stage left. If the trouble then comes and finds me and my family then and only then will I let the dog bark.
 
Pitdogg2 said:
I'm all about defending MYSELF, that's it.
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OK but could you please hang a tag on you and your family so no one will step up to help them. Yes its a moral obligation. Thats what separates us from THEM. I thought that was obvious, I guess not.

Im not saying this thinking is wrong; but Im struggling to understand it as right. Im really having trouble believing you would standby and watch a rape or someone being pistol whipped in a robbery while armed and physically capable, only to say "I was a good witness". Tell us that when someone watches your loved ones be attacked and does nothing.

The thing is I think you are better than that. Its really not hard to do the right thing. Its actually harder to do nothing; but I bet you know that.

Yes of course get your family to safety, they are your primary mission; but when you are alone can you really live with saying "I called 911 and watched" because you were afraid of being sued?
 
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