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The 21-Foot rule

KLGunner

Moderator
Staff member
How many of you have heard of the 21-Foot rule? Have you trained or prepared for this situation? The following is quoted text from www.krudoknives.com


”The 21-Foot Rule”
“The 21-foot rule has long been used by police officers. Essentially, it says that when an assailant wielding a knife is closing in, they will cover 21 feet in the time it takes you to draw and fire your gun. That’s a lot of ground and it also puts intense pressure on the person drawing the gun.

And you might not even have that much time. Recently, a study at Minnesota State University- Mankato found that the amount of distance covered can be greater than 21 feet. Some in law enforcement suggest that training officers on using edge tools is necessary to provide them with choices for dealing with an attack.

No Line of Fire
For a gun to be effective, the target has to be in front of the bullet. In close quarters, knives will hardly ever miss the target – and can be deployed tactically in many different ways.

If You Miss…
In the movies, someone is attacked and somehow has time to pull out a gun, fire it and immediately stop the bad guy in his or her shoes. In real life, that’s not a likely scenario. What you are more likely to face is someone moving quickly and closing fast, not giving you time to fend them off with one hand while trying to take out a gun with another. And even if you do fire, there’s no guarantee you will hit your opponent, leaving you defenseless as they close in.

Ammunition Not Needed
Obvious, but worth mentioning. A knife is always “loaded,” no matter how many times it is used.

Fast Learner
Nearly everyone can be deadly by simply picking up a knife – we all understand how to slash and cut with a blade. And while you can become much more adept at using a knife through practice, it’s nothing like the learning curve with a gun.

No Warning, Just Action
No one sees a knife coming. There’s no need to load it, unlike a safety and squeeze a trigger. A knife is simply unsheathed and deployed. This is especially important in a crisis situation where you likely are going to be given little time to think and not much room to maneuver.

Knife vs. Gun: The Lethal Force Question

If you respond to an attacker using a gun, it gives you only one option: using maximum, sometimes, lethal, force. While a knife is also lethal, it’s a more elegant weapon that can be used in a variety of ways to defeat an attacker.

Better Defense
It starts with awareness of your surroundings. If someone comes after you wielding a knife, the most important thing to think about is protecting your life, not trying to draw a weapon. Taking into consideration distance between you and attacker. If you are attempting to draw a weapon rather than creating space between you and the attacker and getting out of the line of attack, you are almost certain to get cut. As you do your best to avoid the initial attack, you are also preparing to draw you knife or defensive tool for tactical defense.”

Food for thought!
When reading this I was putting the idea into thought of a real life situation such as in a parking lot at a store. I also put into thought the Rules of 3. Most self defense situations happen with 3 shots in 3 seconds within 3 yards. That’s only 9 feet folks. I know when drawing from my hip or even appendix my draw and fire time is 2.7 seconds for only one shot. I haven’t timed myself for 3 shots personally. Just figured I’d share and see what y’all have to say about this.
 
When practicing the Filipino arts I got a great understanding of how dangerous one can be with a blade and also how difficult it can be to defend against even if the attacker is untrained. The knife is a form of melee weapon that just needs to be in motion to destroy the target just like a club, axe, or sword. We would train charging attacks from 20-30ft just to gauge the reaction speed of the defender who had to be in a relaxed position with a metal, either folding or fixed blade trainer similar to what they normally carried. The defender obviously knew the attack was going to happen but still had to draw his/her knife or fight off the attack to disarm or defend the against the aggressor. Even in a training scenario most beginners panic and cannot even get the knife from where it's normally carried on their person open in time to defend themselves. There is a huge misconception in the world where everyone thinks that just because they carry a gun or a knife they will be ready for whatever. Even if you end the fight with your knife or gun a stab wound or cut could prove just a fatal for yourself if you are unfortunate to be on the receiving end of a blade.
🔪😵
 
For most of us, most of the time, I think an attacker is going to approach at less than full run. Maybe like casually walking up and asking for the time or if you have a light, etc. They will likely be inside 21 feet before you can affirm you need to react in either a deadly or non-deadly manner. That being said, a knife is good if used effectively!
 
For most of us, most of the time, I think an attacker is going to approach at less than full run. Maybe like casually walking up and asking for the time or if you have a light, etc. They will likely be inside 21 feet before you can affirm you need to react in either a deadly or non-deadly manner. That being said, a knife is good if used effectively!
Just like any attack the scenario can be just as unpredictable as the type of attack.
I agree with you a knife is definitely an effective tool if used correctly. Be aware of you're surroundings and take notice of your proximity to exits or other areas you can use to create distance between yourself and the attacker.
 
I was in an incident years ago and I was on the receiving end of an unprovoked knife attack. Luckily I was not seriously injured and recovered weeks later. The attacker covered those 21 feet in what seemed like a blink of an eye. I was unarmed and was lucky to survive. In these types of encounters, distance is your friend and allows you to prepare your defense. Stay alert, stay alive!
 
How many of you have heard of the 21-Foot rule? Have you trained or prepared for this situation? The following is quoted text from www.krudoknives.com


”The 21-Foot Rule”
“The 21-foot rule has long been used by police officers. Essentially, it says that when an assailant wielding a knife is closing in, they will cover 21 feet in the time it takes you to draw and fire your gun. That’s a lot of ground and it also puts intense pressure on the person drawing the gun.

And you might not even have that much time. Recently, a study at Minnesota State University- Mankato found that the amount of distance covered can be greater than 21 feet. Some in law enforcement suggest that training officers on using edge tools is necessary to provide them with choices for dealing with an attack.

No Line of Fire
For a gun to be effective, the target has to be in front of the bullet. In close quarters, knives will hardly ever miss the target – and can be deployed tactically in many different ways.

If You Miss…
In the movies, someone is attacked and somehow has time to pull out a gun, fire it and immediately stop the bad guy in his or her shoes. In real life, that’s not a likely scenario. What you are more likely to face is someone moving quickly and closing fast, not giving you time to fend them off with one hand while trying to take out a gun with another. And even if you do fire, there’s no guarantee you will hit your opponent, leaving you defenseless as they close in.

Ammunition Not Needed
Obvious, but worth mentioning. A knife is always “loaded,” no matter how many times it is used.

Fast Learner
Nearly everyone can be deadly by simply picking up a knife – we all understand how to slash and cut with a blade. And while you can become much more adept at using a knife through practice, it’s nothing like the learning curve with a gun.

No Warning, Just Action
No one sees a knife coming. There’s no need to load it, unlike a safety and squeeze a trigger. A knife is simply unsheathed and deployed. This is especially important in a crisis situation where you likely are going to be given little time to think and not much room to maneuver.

Knife vs. Gun: The Lethal Force Question

If you respond to an attacker using a gun, it gives you only one option: using maximum, sometimes, lethal, force. While a knife is also lethal, it’s a more elegant weapon that can be used in a variety of ways to defeat an attacker.

Better Defense
It starts with awareness of your surroundings. If someone comes after you wielding a knife, the most important thing to think about is protecting your life, not trying to draw a weapon. Taking into consideration distance between you and attacker. If you are attempting to draw a weapon rather than creating space between you and the attacker and getting out of the line of attack, you are almost certain to get cut. As you do your best to avoid the initial attack, you are also preparing to draw you knife or defensive tool for tactical defense.”

Food for thought!
When reading this I was putting the idea into thought of a real life situation such as in a parking lot at a store. I also put into thought the Rules of 3. Most self defense situations happen with 3 shots in 3 seconds within 3 yards. That’s only 9 feet folks. I know when drawing from my hip or even appendix my draw and fire time is 2.7 seconds for only one shot. I haven’t timed myself for 3 shots personally. Just figured I’d share and see what y’all have to say about this.
Excellent content KLGunner👍
 
I posted my take on the canonical Tueller Drill a few days ago, so I won't belabor the point other than to cite it here: https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/self-defense-combat-arts.366/#post-5529 - I know all too well that my posts are long-winded and that sometimes (almost always) some (everyone) falls asleep reading them, so I won't post all of that again! :oops::ROFLMAO:😅:p

That said, I didn't post much specifically about knives, there, and I want to offer up my very humble opinions on this subject.

(1) Deploying the defensive knife is just like deploying any other defensive weapon: it's about timing and your skill level. If your timing is wrong, trying to access that weapon will put you even further behind the power-curve than if you used some other method to solve your problem (be it empty-hands, "Run-Fu," or verbal de-escalation). If you have not pressure-cooked your defensive knife (or other defensive tool) deployment, you owe it to yourself to do so - just remember to do so SAFELY: a live blade is an extraordinarily dangerous instrument, so use a training knife or other suitable substitute (everything from kids' toy "Nerf" knives to a magic marker, or simple cardboard cutouts).

(2) The legalities of knife self-defense use can get very tricky. Varg Freeborn - one of today's leading self-defense instructors and the author of the Amazon.com category bestseller Violence of Mind - has repeatedly addressed this in his classes, lectures, and P&S and VoM ModCasts. I would encourage anyone who carries a knife as a defensive tool to give his perspective a serious look.

(3) Knife laws can also be very tricky. If you live in a state with knife-law preemption, great! But if not, then I would highly recommend that you get intimately familiar with your local laws and ordinances. Ohio, for example, despite longstanding legal concealed handgun preemption, has failed to achieve the same for knives, and that has led to a mish-mosh of local-level ordinances that can literally have you legitimately legal on one side of the street, but in-violation on the other.

And before you scoff at that last consideration of legality, realize that should you get caught-out by such rather ridiculous circumstances, you may stand to lose your firearms rights as a result.

Don't think that's possible?


^ This post on the Ohioans for Concealed Carry Forums details the case of Mr. Michael Porschien.

Mr. Porschien rightfully won his case.

But in the real-world, we all know that things could have turned out not so favorably.

Just as you would know the laws about carrying a concealed firearm, you owe it to yourself to also know the laws where it comes to your other defensive tools, be it a knife, OC, or otherwise.
 
I was in an incident years ago and I was on the receiving end of an unprovoked knife attack. Luckily I was not seriously injured and recovered weeks later. The attacker covered those 21 feet in what seemed like a blink of an eye. I was unarmed and was lucky to survive. In these types of encounters, distance is your friend and allows you to prepare your defense. Stay alert, stay alive!
So I don’t mean to poke at a sore subject but what would you do differently now if that were to happen again?
 
So I don’t mean to poke at a sore subject but what would you do differently now if that were to happen again?
No problem. I was asked by a family friend to accompany them to an area, which was dimly lit, late at night, remote, and we were both unarmed. These are all red flags to me now and I avoid these types of situations, if possible.

Lessons learned:
1. Perform a risk assessment analyzing your destination and look for ways to mitigate the risk. *I never should have been there in the first place.
2. Be alert and aware of your surroundings. *I should have immediately left the area when I detected a possible threat.
3. Carry, if possible. *A firearm is not a magic wand, but it may be the difference between life and death when faced with an unavoidable violent confrontation.
 
No problem. I was asked by a family friend to accompany them to an area, which was dimly lit, late at night, remote, and we were both unarmed. These are all red flags to me now and I avoid these types of situations, if possible.

Lessons learned:
1. Perform a risk assessment analyzing your destination and look for ways to mitigate the risk. *I never should have been there in the first place.
2. Be alert and aware of your surroundings. *I should have immediately left the area when I detected a possible threat.
3. Carry, if possible. *A firearm is not a magic wand, but it may be the difference between life and death when faced with an unavoidable violent confrontation.
Dang brother I’m sorry that happened to you. Those are all great lessons learned however sorry it had to be learned from a situation like that.
 
No problem. I was asked by a family friend to accompany them to an area, which was dimly lit, late at night, remote, and we were both unarmed. These are all red flags to me now and I avoid these types of situations, if possible.

Thank you - so much - for sharing! :)

Lessons learned:
1. Perform a risk assessment analyzing your destination and look for ways to mitigate the risk. *I never should have been there in the first place.
2. Be alert and aware of your surroundings. *I should have immediately left the area when I detected a possible threat.
3. Carry, if possible. *A firearm is not a magic wand, but it may be the difference between life and death when faced with an unavoidable violent confrontation.

We should all be so wise.

Those are HUGE take-homes.

None of us have the ability to read the future, but if our adult brain understands that we should not be there in the first place, then by all means we should heed our own warning. Certainly, there will be circumstances which make this difficult or impossible, but whenever possible, simply choosing to not be there for the confrontation is always the smartest - and most certain - way to go.

And that feeds directly into removing oneself from the situation as fast as possible, if at all possible.

The biggest thing that I think so many who choose armed self-defense do not fully grasp is that the gun is not a magical amulet which wards off evil. It's but a tool, and this tool requires skills and capability to use correctly, just like any other tool.

Again, thank you so much for sharing your hard-won lesson!
 
I like the demonstration the Mythbusters did. I think it gives a good idea of the timing except. Adam is drawing from and open holster. How much further away could Jamie be if Adam were drawing from concealment? Something to ponder.

Very true. I saw that video.
Okay but we can all also point out the errors in that video. One he’s pulling and cocking the gun before he fires. May I point out an Old adage here “Carrying without one in the chamber is like telling yourself you have enough time to buckle up before an accident.” Secondly in the video Jamie is drawing from a drop leg holster. It has been proven that an OWB belt holster with a forward canter has a faster response time. That being said on the two things I saw to speed up the time let me point out the obvious things that they missed that would hurt the time. Adam is starting out at 24 feet from a dead stop with Jamie watching him. Theoretically if Adam came running from the side and didn’t make himself known till he hit the 24 foot mark then Jamie wouldn’t stand a chance at all.
 
Okay but we can all also point out the errors in that video. One he’s pulling and cocking the gun before he fires. May I point out an Old adage here “Carrying without one in the chamber is like telling yourself you have enough time to buckle up before an accident.” Secondly in the video Jamie is drawing from a drop leg holster. It has been proven that an OWB belt holster with a forward canter has a faster response time. That being said on the two things I saw to speed up the time let me point out the obvious things that they missed that would hurt the time. Adam is starting out at 24 feet from a dead stop with Jamie watching him. Theoretically if Adam came running from the side and didn’t make himself known till he hit the 24 foot mark then Jamie wouldn’t stand a chance at all.
I think it was an interesting demonstration done in typical Mythbuster's style, not perfect. But then I see the fellow trying to get his weapon out at the West Freeway Church. I notice that same issue at the range. Guys trying to get their EDC out from under a shirt/coat for some practice.

What if the attacker is a knife thrower? I can see where the handgun could be useless. Lots of scenarios to think about and most likely won't cover the one we get in to. Not to say we shouldn't practice but I bet 90% EDC or better don't. Most get a carry permit and move on with their daily lives, except now they have a permit and a handgun. I have asked many that come to the range when was the last time you fired and they can't remember. Something happened that prompted them to come in a send a few down range.
 
I think it was an interesting demonstration done in typical Mythbuster's style, not perfect. But then I see the fellow trying to get his weapon out at the West Freeway Church. I notice that same issue at the range. Guys trying to get their EDC out from under a shirt/coat for some practice.

What if the attacker is a knife thrower? I can see where the handgun could be useless. Lots of scenarios to think about and most likely won't cover the one we get in to. Not to say we shouldn't practice but I bet 90% EDC or better don't. Most get a carry permit and move on with their daily lives, except now they have a permit and a handgun. I have asked many that come to the range when was the last time you fired and they can't remember. Something happened that prompted them to come in a send a few down range.
Absolutely having the permit is one thing. Heck having a gun is another but both are worthless unless you actively train with them and in as many scenarios as you can think of.
 
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