Jester560
Professional
I agree. Im a q0mm whore but in grizzly country, I would opt for my 454 Casull with 300gr XTP magnums at 1500 fps.
10mm Self Defense: A Suitable Defensive Cartridge?
- Thread starter Talyn
- Start date
Condition1
Master Class
I’ve got an old Speer reloading manual that list a 250 gr bullet with 39grs of H110. I don’t see that load anymore in any of the reloading manuals. That would be a hoss.
Jester560
Professional
Hell yeah it would. I would have to check my load to verify the charge weight. Im using VV N110 instead of H110.
Condition1
Master Class
I used to use 2400 in my 44 mag but found out H110 is a lot cleaner burning powder and I’ve never looked back. I’ve got at least 8 pounds of it. Enough to last me for a long time. I just don’t shoot my Super Blackhawk much anymore. I bought a Lyman 250gr hollow point mold for it. I got probably 500 sized lube and gas checks on them but I have loaded the first one yet. I’ve also got the S&W 1854 in 44 magnum that’s a fun little rifle to d shoot.
LoneGunman
Operator
Harold Fish was wrongly convicted. The caliber of the weapon was made an issue because the prosecution knew it would scare the jury, just like it scared you.
If Mr. Fish was carrying a 380, would Grant Kuenzli stated in the article you posted, "living out of the forest," be just as dead? Yes.
The cities are notorious for being looney progressive. Fish was in a kangaroo court and his wrongful conviction proves that, under no circumstances should you ever talk to the police without an attorney present after a self-defense action. Not ever. The police took a person's natural reaction to such an event and spun it into something it wasn't because they wanted a conviction. "Oh can't seem to recall?" - Lying, or incomplete truth. Misremembering? - making stuff up.
Let's look at the basic facts:
Grant Kuenzli was 43.
The testimonies about Grant "being a great person," and "dindu nuffin," are complete bull pucky.
Harold Fish was 57.
Both were out in the middle of nowhere.
Ex-retard had two dogs in his custody which were unleashed.
The dogs charged Fish.
Fish discharged a round to scare the dogs from attacking.
Ex-retard then got up, and CHARGED THE FISH WHO JUST DISPLAYED THAT HE HAD A WEAPON.
I will say that again, HE CHARGED THE FISH WHO JUST DISPLAYED THAT HE HAD A WEAPON.
(Play stupid games, win stupid prizes)
Couldn't get a hold of EMS for an hour, which was painted as "he waited unnecessarily causing ex-retard's death." There was no cell service.
Mr Fish was wrongly convicted of a crime.
The state basically tried him and put him on the stand to prove he acted in self-defense. This is no longer the metric. One cannot prove to anyone the exact amount of fear you feel at the moment in a self-defense situation. The claims of "he was unarmed," should have been ignored.
Fish appealed, won his appeal, and the state has refused to retry the case.
This is another example where the state over-reached and wanted to convict someone of a good defensive action to scare people into NOT using their firearms in a self-defense situation. Arizona is not a "duty to retreat" state, which the very notion is retarded. But the jury, which will always have a couple of delusional armchair quarterbacks, will surmise that since the attacker who was 15 years younger than the victim, and wasn't armed with a firearm, didn't present enough of a threat.
Complete rubbish.
I am a fan of the 10mm. I don’t carry one daily, but I have carried them some.
One thing I like it for is as a multipurpose gun. I’ve carried a Delta Elite when traveling because a 10 can cover a lot of ground. Defensive carry, hunting (to a limit), matches from IDPA to bowling pins, etc. And it meets most magazine capacity limits.
I didn’t see it here, but people are always comparing it to the .41 Magnum. I’m a fan, but I can’t make that stretch. It’s a stout round, but it’s no .41 Magnum. Yeah, the top 10mm loads overlap lower .41 Mag loads, but that doesn’t make them the same.
The 10 can probably handle many types of bears with careful shooting, but this isn’t a time for “probably” to me. Overkill is welcome here. I’d never carry a 10mm in bear country as long as I have other guns. If in Grizzly country, I’d sell my 10s and get something else.
Bears aren’t something I need to worry about without making it something to worry about, so I’ll go on liking the 10mm. It shoots well, is easy to handload with jacketed or cast, and a wide variety of powders work in it.
I only have two 10mms now, the Delta Elite and a 3” GP-100. Yes, I think it makes some sense in a revolver. It’s the biggest bore round in a six-shot gun that size, and I like the combination.
One thing I like it for is as a multipurpose gun. I’ve carried a Delta Elite when traveling because a 10 can cover a lot of ground. Defensive carry, hunting (to a limit), matches from IDPA to bowling pins, etc. And it meets most magazine capacity limits.
I didn’t see it here, but people are always comparing it to the .41 Magnum. I’m a fan, but I can’t make that stretch. It’s a stout round, but it’s no .41 Magnum. Yeah, the top 10mm loads overlap lower .41 Mag loads, but that doesn’t make them the same.
The 10 can probably handle many types of bears with careful shooting, but this isn’t a time for “probably” to me. Overkill is welcome here. I’d never carry a 10mm in bear country as long as I have other guns. If in Grizzly country, I’d sell my 10s and get something else.
Bears aren’t something I need to worry about without making it something to worry about, so I’ll go on liking the 10mm. It shoots well, is easy to handload with jacketed or cast, and a wide variety of powders work in it.
I only have two 10mms now, the Delta Elite and a 3” GP-100. Yes, I think it makes some sense in a revolver. It’s the biggest bore round in a six-shot gun that size, and I like the combination.
Condition1
Master Class
The original FBI load was a 220 TC at 1400fps 41 magnum bullet weight and 41 magnum velocity. No one loads this anymore because not only did it prove to much for the FBI agents it also beat the
out of the firearms. This is where people are comparing the 10mm to the 41 magnum.The original Norma loadings were a 200 grain TC bullet at 1200 fps and a 170 grain JHP at 1300 fps.The original FBI load was a 220 TC at 1400fps 41 magnum bullet weight and 41 magnum velocity. No one loads this anymore because not only did it prove to much for the FBI agents it also beat the
While the FBI tested full power 10mm ammo, it was never issued. They tried it in testing only, but quickly loaded what became known as “FBI Lite” or “10mm Lite” or simply the FBI Load. This was a 180 JHP at 950 fps. This is detailed in the FBI Law Enforcement Journal Nov 1989 edition by Special Agent John Hall who was head of the testing.
Link:
FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin - November 1989 | FBI: Law Enforcement Bulletin
The November 1989 issue of the FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, which has been published monthly since 1932, with articles of interest to state and local law enforcement personnel.
leb.fbi.gov
Same, except I use 296
Biggfoot44
Professional
Literally the same thing .
Hertervillian
Elite
A 10mm is too much? This in a world where it’s fine for a half dozen patrolmen to run their Glock 17’s to slide lock on a baddie.