testtest

75 GR with 4064 in 223

I read somewhere that my Hornady 75 gr BTHP bullets shouldn't be used with this powder because of the long cylindrical nature of the powder, although Lyman says it's ok.
So although it's similar, I'm on the lookout of Varget for the same purpose. I know it's long and has to be able to fit in the magazine.
Anyone concur with that?

Thanks.
 
I read somewhere that my Hornady 75 gr BTHP bullets shouldn't be used with this powder because of the long cylindrical nature of the powder, although Lyman says it's ok.
So although it's similar, I'm on the lookout of Varget for the same purpose. I know it's long and has to be able to fit in the magazine.
Anyone concur with that?

Thanks.
It's a bit fuzzy to me.........perhaps you should clarify.

What is the length of the 75 gr BTHP compared to a 52 or 55 grain?

Is the "long cylindrical" nature of the powder affecting seating depth?

Is there / how much of a difference between the overall length of the two different rounds?

Are you saying because of the shape of the powder, with this bullet combination, it is causing magazine/feeding issues?

I can not answer your question because I don't understand it.
 

TEXASforLIFE

Hellcat
It's a bit fuzzy to me.........perhaps you should clarify.

What is the length of the 75 gr BTHP compared to a 52 or 55 grain?

Is the "long cylindrical" nature of the powder affecting seating depth?

Is there / how much of a difference between the overall length of the two different rounds?

Are you saying because of the shape of the powder, with this bullet combination, it is causing magazine/feeding issues?

I can not answer your question because I don't understand it.
2.250" in hornady manual and 2.260" in the western powder data. Don't see 4064 listed for that grain or any grain in 223 or 5.56. Hodgdon does for the jkvld. IMR4064 or another 4064 would be a question!
 
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2.250" in hornady manual and 2.260" in the western powder data. Don't see 4064 listed for that grain or any grain in 223 or 5.56. Hodgdon does for the jkvld. IMR4064 or another 4064 would be a question!

My apologies for being late. I've been working on the house to sell next Spring and has consumed a lot of my time.
Doesn't matter I guess, because although I have 100 of Hornady's 75 gr Black ammo, and lots of bullets and primers, I have no powder to reload. I've been calling and still no luck. But I did manage to buy a nice new Vortex 18x x 30mm scope for it. I haven't even had a chance to shoot it yet. (with 75 gr) I also found out that an 18 - 20" barrel would work better with the 75 gr BTHP, but that isn't in the budget for now.

I did take one day to nail down the most accurate powder for my Sig P220 though, so I accomplished something.

I use the 50th Edition of Lymans Reloading Manual as well as Hornady's. (9th Edition, OLD)
I wrote Lyman and told them I have 75 gr BTHP and they list Varget as being the most popular and accurate powder for most of the bullets for this cartridge and 4064 being a close second. I defer to Lyman mostly because I don't have a new version of Hornady's.

I just received 500 of Hornady 75 gr HPBT. I also emailed Lyman and asked them what powder would be a close second to Varget for my Hornady 75 gr HPBT and they said 4064 (for accuracy).
They list OAL of the Sierra BTHP 77 gr as 2.260".

Hornady lists the 75 gr HPBT at 2.250 OAL, and VIHT is listed as the most preferred (*accurate?) in their tests. Hornady doesn't seem to give you what powder was the most accurate in their tests, whereas Lyman will.

I can't recall where I saw the comment about getting the powder to fit in with the bullet and still be magazine length for the AR. But the data doesn't suggest that in either book.

Once again
 
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It's a bit fuzzy to me.........perhaps you should clarify.

What is the length of the 75 gr BTHP compared to a 52 or 55 grain?

Is the "long cylindrical" nature of the powder affecting seating depth?

Is there / how much of a difference between the overall length of the two different rounds?

Are you saying because of the shape of the powder, with this bullet combination, it is causing magazine/feeding issues?

I can not answer your question because I don't understand it.
Oh yes, it's the length. my Sierra 55 gr HP (flat bottom) mikes at 0.730" and the Hornady 75 gr BTHP at 0.996"
And a cylindrical powder requires more space in a cartridge than a ball powder. I believe there's a difference in length between the Varget and 4064 powders. (cylindrical powder) Cylindrical powders are also more difficult to maintain a consistent load because of their shape. (+/-) 1 - 2 gr for an automatic powder dispenser , like mine on my progressive press. +/- 1 - 2 grs in a small cartridge, like the 223 , 9mm or 45 can make or break a tight group.
 
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To C. Sumpkin.
Oh yes, it's the length. my Sierra 55 gr HP (flat bottom) mikes at 0.730" and the Hornady 75 gr BTHP at 0.996"
And a cylindrical powder requires more space in a cartridge than a ball powder. I believe there's a difference in length between the Varget and 4064 powders. (cylindrical powder) Cylindrical powders are also more difficult to maintain a consistent load because of their shape. (+/-) 1 - 2 gr for an automatic powder dispenser , like mine on my progressive press. +/- 1 - 2 grs in a small cartridge, like the 223 , 9mm or 45 can make or break a tight group.

That needs more explanation.
Lets say you hand load different rounds with different grains of powder and you find out that you get a 1" group at 100 yds with 25.0 grs, but when you tried 24.8 gr, the group was 3.0". (It can make that much difference)
So now you go to your press, and keep adjusting the auto powder dispenser until most but never all, are at 25.0 grs. You'll actually find out that some will be 24.8, 24.9, 25.0, 25.1, 25.2, especially with a cylindrical powder. The smaller the powder cylinder, the more consistent the measure will be. So even if your powder measure is a good one, it's still going to be pushing out 24.9 to 5.1 grs on a lot of rounds. (+/- 1 gr) You keep checking the output on every 10 rds and keep the powder measure barrel filled to approximately the same height.

The only way to be more accurate is to hand measure each and every powder load. That may be fine for competition or long range hunting (Antelope & Dall Sheep come to mind), but for pistols and magazine fed rifles, it's totally impractical and overly time-consuming. (barring competition)

Hope this helps.
 

TEXASforLIFE

Hellcat
My apologies for being late. I've been working on the house to sell next Spring and has consumed a lot of my time.
Doesn't matter I guess, because although I have 100 of Hornady's 75 gr Black ammo, and lots of bullets and primers, I have no powder to reload. I've been calling and still no luck. But I did manage to buy a nice new Vortex 18x x 30mm scope for it. I haven't even had a chance to shoot it yet. (with 75 gr) I also found out that an 18 - 20" barrel would work better with the 75 gr BTHP, but that isn't in the budget for now.

I did take one day to nail down the most accurate powder for my Sig P220 though, so I accomplished something.

I use the 50th Edition of Lymans Reloading Manual as well as Hornady's. (9th Edition, OLD)
I wrote Lyman and told them I have 75 gr BTHP and they list Varget as being the most popular and accurate powder for most of the bullets for this cartridge and 4064 being a close second. I defer to Lyman mostly because I don't have a new version of Hornady's.

I just received 500 of Hornady 75 gr HPBT. I also emailed Lyman and asked them what powder would be a close second to Varget for my Hornady 75 gr HPBT and they said 4064 (for accuracy).
They list OAL of the Sierra BTHP 77 gr as 2.260".

Hornady lists the 75 gr HPBT at 2.250 OAL, and VIHT is listed as the most preferred (*accurate?) in their tests. Hornady doesn't seem to give you what powder was the most accurate in their tests, whereas Lyman will.

I can't recall where I saw the comment about getting the powder to fit in with the bullet and still be magazine length for the AR. But the data doesn't suggest that in either book.

Once again
I have both also and the AR manual and didn't check those.
 

TEXASforLIFE

Hellcat
My apologies for being late. I've been working on the house to sell next Spring and has consumed a lot of my time.
Doesn't matter I guess, because although I have 100 of Hornady's 75 gr Black ammo, and lots of bullets and primers, I have no powder to reload. I've been calling and still no luck. But I did manage to buy a nice new Vortex 18x x 30mm scope for it. I haven't even had a chance to shoot it yet. (with 75 gr) I also found out that an 18 - 20" barrel would work better with the 75 gr BTHP, but that isn't in the budget for now.

I did take one day to nail down the most accurate powder for my Sig P220 though, so I accomplished something.

I use the 50th Edition of Lymans Reloading Manual as well as Hornady's. (9th Edition, OLD)
I wrote Lyman and told them I have 75 gr BTHP and they list Varget as being the most popular and accurate powder for most of the bullets for this cartridge and 4064 being a close second. I defer to Lyman mostly because I don't have a new version of Hornady's.

I just received 500 of Hornady 75 gr HPBT. I also emailed Lyman and asked them what powder would be a close second to Varget for my Hornady 75 gr HPBT and they said 4064 (for accuracy).
They list OAL of the Sierra BTHP 77 gr as 2.260".

Hornady lists the 75 gr HPBT at 2.250 OAL, and VIHT is listed as the most preferred (*accurate?) in their tests. Hornady doesn't seem to give you what powder was the most accurate in their tests, whereas Lyman will.

I can't recall where I saw the comment about getting the powder to fit in with the bullet and still be magazine length for the AR. But the data doesn't suggest that in either book.

Once again
SO? 4064 being IMR or some other brand?
 

TEXASforLIFE

Hellcat
Checked the lyman books and imr4064 was listed, but as the 75bthp. Amax listing @ 2.390" I think, but was longer than mag length.
 
To C. Sumpkin.
Oh yes, it's the length. my Sierra 55 gr HP (flat bottom) mikes at 0.730" and the Hornady 75 gr BTHP at 0.996"
And a cylindrical powder requires more space in a cartridge than a ball powder. I believe there's a difference in length between the Varget and 4064 powders. (cylindrical powder) Cylindrical powders are also more difficult to maintain a consistent load because of their shape. (+/-) 1 - 2 gr for an automatic powder dispenser , like mine on my progressive press. +/- 1 - 2 grs in a small cartridge, like the 223 , 9mm or 45 can make or break a tight group.

That needs more explanation.
Lets say you hand load different rounds with different grains of powder and you find out that you get a 1" group at 100 yds with 25.0 grs, but when you tried 24.8 gr, the group was 3.0". (It can make that much difference)
So now you go to your press, and keep adjusting the auto powder dispenser until most but never all, are at 25.0 grs. You'll actually find out that some will be 24.8, 24.9, 25.0, 25.1, 25.2, especially with a cylindrical powder. The smaller the powder cylinder, the more consistent the measure will be. So even if your powder measure is a good one, it's still going to be pushing out 24.9 to 5.1 grs on a lot of rounds. (+/- 1 gr) You keep checking the output on every 10 rds and keep the powder measure barrel filled to approximately the same height.

The only way to be more accurate is to hand measure each and every powder load. That may be fine for competition or long range hunting (Antelope & Dall Sheep come to mind), but for pistols and magazine fed rifles, it's totally impractical and overly time-consuming. (barring competition)

Hope this helps.
Excellent. You have a higher level of interest and expertise on this topic than I.

Hand measure each round? Not me.
 
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