HansGruber
Ronin
There’s a reason it's called the “FBI Load”.
9mm — Is it great or does it suck?
- Thread starter jg7789
- Start date
There’s a reason it's called the “FBI Load”.
REV1NRA
Operator
My friend Tommy messaged me back. Said it was down loaded to what you said, soon after it initially started use by them because of the breakage/reliability issues during testing. Then a shorter case (the .40) and a smaller frame gun. Then much later, a Glock that could handle an even hotter .40 load. He started with a .38!
HansGruber
Ronin
From the beginning, that was the load the FBI specified.
Hotter loads were never used, or even considered.
Breach&Bang
Alpha
9mm's popularity is mainly due to 2 factors.
1. Appeal to authority marketing aka "x mil/department uses it so it must be the best". Reality is large organizations choose everything they use based on logistics and budgets. 9mm being cheap helps a lot.
2. Appeals to women. This compounds why organizations choose 9mm over larger calibers with more recoil. It's easier for women to qualify period. With more and more women being wanted in police/mil it's a pistol caliber that allows them a better chance at meeting qualifications.
There you go. That is why the 9mm now days is considered by many to be the best pistol caliber around.
1. Appeal to authority marketing aka "x mil/department uses it so it must be the best". Reality is large organizations choose everything they use based on logistics and budgets. 9mm being cheap helps a lot.
2. Appeals to women. This compounds why organizations choose 9mm over larger calibers with more recoil. It's easier for women to qualify period. With more and more women being wanted in police/mil it's a pistol caliber that allows them a better chance at meeting qualifications.
There you go. That is why the 9mm now days is considered by many to be the best pistol caliber around.
REV1NRA
Operator
It wasn't a consideration, because a reduced power round wasn't available until they found out they needed a reduced power round.
HansGruber
Ronin
You’ve got your and anecdotal source, I’ve got mine.
All I know is that the official history makes no mention of a full power load ever considered, or even tried.
REV1NRA
Operator
Very true. I for one, have always taken with a grain of salt,what I've read from official statements or what the media wants me to see. I trust peoples personal experiences that have no reason to lie to me.
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
On paper it does, but from my testing it doesn't! It's due to the extra capacity in the case(longer). The only way I can test in same handgun is my XDMs.
HansGruber
Ronin
If you can prove, mathematically, that the same mass moving at the same velocity will cause a different force to be applied in recoil in an identical platform, you will have proved Newton wrong.
The physics world is holding its collective breath.
KillerFord1977
SAINT
“Everything can be improved”
Ammo is no different.
Someone makes a cartridge and someone, somewhere, states they can refine it or do better.
thus we have the never ending cycle.
Look at all the calibers/cartridges out there, and I bet we could get by with 10 total for applicational use
Ammo is no different.
Someone makes a cartridge and someone, somewhere, states they can refine it or do better.
thus we have the never ending cycle.
Look at all the calibers/cartridges out there, and I bet we could get by with 10 total for applicational use
BangBang
Professional
The FAMS (buddy of mine) who is still working with them, are just now switching from 357sig to 9mm. As @HansGruber said when the FBI “adopted” the 10mm the rounds were “neutered” or “FBI loads” nothing that we have now. That being said, the 10mm was an excellent choice it just didn’t work out for all the agents that sat behind the desk and were required to carry and qualify with a gun.
The .40S&W, whatever some folks may say, is a good round and was supposed to be the answer to the 10mm, and was until recently, when the FBI, which switched to 9mm and then everyone follows suit. I will say the FBI does some very good testing and I’ve said it before, the bullet technology has made a 180 from 20 year’s ago. 9mm as small as it may be, performs very well.
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
It's a good thing that I AM smart and can easily prove! IRW! I have 2 XDMs of 40 and 10mm, so that will be a start. It will take some time too weigh each part for a collective comparison. The glocks having a different slide weight wont give a identical comparison. One thing I don't know is the spring weight on the 2 XDMs? Maybe I'll swap and test on factory loads? Here's a test for you if you have a 357sig and a 9mm for comparisons? The 9mm with a 147gr (fmj in this case) and a 357sig with the same bullet. The pressure too get the same velocity will be less in the sig due too the larger case capacity. This is a test I have done using the same brand and type of powder. The test was done in a glock 17 and 31 both gen4. Same slide, spring and frame(not same mag of course). There is more gas volume and less pressure for the sig, so the same applies too the 40 and 10mm in the same manner! Here's a question. Do you think/know is there more recoil in a 135gr with the same muzzle energy and a 180gr with the same gun? Both not having the same pressure, but not the same velocity too achieve the same muzzle energy. No need too use the internet as for information will be subjective.
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
If any of it, it's more political than real world regardless!
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
It does look awesome, especially the grip!
BangBang
Professional
I agree, like in the military, politics plays a big role in most everything. Just like the last contract with Sig. we saw the money involved vs Glock but politics took over... same thing happens with the alphabet agencies down to even you local PD. With that being said, it’s not saying it’s wrong, in this case 9mm over .40. Like I was saying and you reload bullets have come a long way. As Hans and others and myself believe. Hits on target as quickly as possible is the goal. If you have some personnel that can’t handle the sometimes, snappiness of the .40 or the recoil of the .45acp then the 9mm is ideal to bring the percentage of hits on target up all across the board.
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
A 147gr in a 4" service model= forget it! Give me a rock, brick or bottle too throw! 20 to 25 yards maybe?@REV1NRA :
10mm Handguns and the FBI
The FBI’s brief dalliance with 10mm handguns led to the development of the .40 Smith & Wesson cartridge, and experts are still divided on the question of the 10mm’s application for law enforcement.gundigest.com
The real story. I never heard about the issues with the 1076, but the rest is pretty much as I was told.
TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
From Hans read it was about a woman's trigger reach playing part of the 10mm problem! I have 2 9s and both are good! Military or not it's just more bs! The sig gives range advantage and that's about it! Don't say anything too a 45 die hard fan!
BangBang
Professional
10mm was to “stout” the woman and believe it or not some men could not shoot or handle it. I was comparing the Sig vs Glock was in refference to the politics, in which I agreed with you on. I was saying it is really bad in the military and even in big agencies to your small ones. One last note, I love a .45 just as much as the next American
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TEXASforLIFE
Ronin
I wasn't disagreeing with you either! The mighty 10 is to powerful in the hands of most. Keeping with the. 355 diameter, 9mm vs 357sig ( I having both). Sig gives you better range, but how many shoot outside would be over 25 yards? It doesn't apply to me on cartridges when my favorite is the one loaded! 1911s need not apply!10mm was to “stout” the woman and believe it or not some men could not shoot or handle it. I was comparing the Sig vs Glock was in refference to the politics, in which I agreed with you on. I was saying it is really bad in the military and even in big agencies to your small ones. One last note, I love a .45 just as much as the next American