I was re-watching the movie "Pale Rider" a couple nights ago and observed a detail that I'd quite forgotten. In the final gunfight scene, Clint Eastwood is clearly shown executing a "tactical reload" of his cap-and-ball revolver (I believe it is a 36 Navy Colt, but don't ding me too badly if I'm wrong about that). The scene shows him, not once, but twice, removing his empty (or partially empty) cylinder from his revolver and replacing it with an extra that he pulls from his belt. On one of the reloads, they clearly show him pulling the extra from a special pouch sewn to his gunbelt. I thought that the attention to those details in the scene was pretty cool! Just don't fumble and drop that loaded cylinder on its butt, Clint! That'd ruin the whole scene!
A clear and accurate depiction of an "old west" tactical reload...
- Thread starter RedGoat
- Start date
Mr.W.
Professional
I've exampled that very scene on this forum in the past for a "cool gun related film scene."
Good to know. I've always kinda casually passed over many of the technical and "manual of arms" details of these weapons. In recent times, my study of history, study of firearms, and even a little family history have piqued my curiosity and desire to learn a bit more about them. In a recent thread, we went through the lineage of the 38 Special and 357 Magnum as it related to the old 36 cap and ball revolvers. There's a HUGE amount of history behind those shiny brass, lead and copper cartridges.The old Remingtons worked better for that than the Colts-drop the loading lever, pull them pin forward and out it comes. New cylinder drops right in
On the Remingtons, when you say "pull them pin forward", are you talking of the pin on which the cylinder spins? And if one pulls it forward, does the cylinder drop free in a manner much like the Colt SAA and the modern Ruger single actions? I ask because it seems to me that the Colt mechanism (in the cap-and-ball revolvers) would provide a slightly greater assurance against accidentally dropping the cylinder while trying to get the replacement cylinder into location. But, that's just my thought, not based on actual handling.
I plan to buy a replica 1851 Navy Real Soon Now just to explore the world of these old guns and their manual of arms firsthand. I promise not to get addicted
That's what I thought I was seeing also earlier in the movie. But in the final gunfight scene, one can clearly see that he's plucking a capped cylinder from his belt pouch.
Note that Clint himself directed this movie, and in his Dirty Harry movie series, he was depicted, depending upon the scene, carrying, displaying, and shooting model 29s with varying barrel lengths. In some of the Dirty Harry scenes where he's supposedly armed with is model 29 but it is supposedly "concealed" beneath his suit coat, I've read that they actually had him dressed WITHOUT his shoulder holster rig, much less his gun, in order to create the impression that his model 29 was uber concealed. We all know that's a pipe dream in real life.
So... Hollywood is NOT above using altogether different firearms in the hands of a single character across multiple scenes. It's Hollywood after all. And sometimes it's actually entertaining despite the lack of "continuity" from a gun bug point of view.
Biggfoot44
Custom
The Remington NMA has a solid frame with a top strap .
The cap & ball Colts had Open Top Frame . To remove cylinder, you have to drive out the Bbl wedge , and remove the Bbl assembly, to remove the cylinder.
The historically correct approach was simply to carry Lots of loaded Revolvers .
43rd Virginia Cavalry carried minimum of 4 revolvers , and 6 were common . ( Two on belt , additional in saddle holsters , and saddle bags . )
The cylinder swapping as done by Eastwood is certainly * possible * , but so far no documented accounts of it having been done , back in the Percussion Revolver Era .
The cap & ball Colts had Open Top Frame . To remove cylinder, you have to drive out the Bbl wedge , and remove the Bbl assembly, to remove the cylinder.
The historically correct approach was simply to carry Lots of loaded Revolvers .
43rd Virginia Cavalry carried minimum of 4 revolvers , and 6 were common . ( Two on belt , additional in saddle holsters , and saddle bags . )
The cylinder swapping as done by Eastwood is certainly * possible * , but so far no documented accounts of it having been done , back in the Percussion Revolver Era .
On a somewhat related note this reminds me (although I never forgot as I do a lot with Wheelguns to this day)
I was exposed to Wheelguns in the AF yjen as a municipal LEO in 1990 and it was “normal” to have speedloaders on your belt in your bag and even in the pockets of ykur patrol car.
So while I don’t recall anyone ever reloading a wheelgun in a fight (the ones that didn’t get it done jn under 6 went to their snub that most carried behind the speedloader pouch) but in any case we sure practiced and had them everywhere
From my reading of various history sources, I believe you are correct. The multiple revolver approach was very common. In fact, carrying multiple handguns as holstered pairs was a very common martial tactic even preceding the cap-and-ball revolver era. With the advent of the cap-and-ball revolvers, the level of firepower that could be carried by a single mounted soldier was mind-boggling (for that day and time). And, like you, I haven't come across an actual historical narrative where the cylinder swap was actually used. I'd imagine that the danger presented by loaded-and-capped cylinder outweighed any tactical advantage. One fumble could easily be more hazardous to the shooter than to the prospective "shootees".
The earliest references I've found to the practice of carrying multiple revolvers by mounted "soldiers" is that of Texas Ranger Walker and his men who were fond of carrying an extra pair of their Walker Colts in holsters slung across the pommel of their saddle in a rig purposely designed for said carry. That would have preceded the Civil War by a few years.
Biggfoot44
Custom
I knew someone who Speedloaded Twice in one engagement.
Sorry for replying to myself... But... I thought I'd share an amusing (but true) "reloading" incident that I happened upon in my readings. Somewhere in the midst of Billy Dixon's autobiography (available for free on the interwebs), Billy related an incident where, while fighting off some attacking Native Americans, Billy's skinner was frantically handloading cartridges for Billy's Sharps rifle in the midst of the fight. This was a different occasion than the Battle of Adobe Walls. I'm going to re-read that bio someday and when I do I'm going to make a note of that passage once I relocate it.
BassCliff
Ronin
Hi,
"Pale Rider" was on last night but I didn't get a chance to watch it. Is this the reload scene you describe?
I love westerns, all of them. Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Randolf Scott, Audy Murphy, Joel McRae, all of them.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
"Pale Rider" was on last night but I didn't get a chance to watch it. Is this the reload scene you describe?
I love westerns, all of them. Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Randolf Scott, Audy Murphy, Joel McRae, all of them.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Hi,
"Pale Rider" was on last night but I didn't get a chance to watch it. Is this the reload scene you describe?
I love westerns, all of them. Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Randolf Scott, Audy Murphy, Joel McRae, all of them.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
Yes, that's it. This is the first "tactical reload" that Clint performs in the final showdown. I was wrong about the number of reloads in the scene. There are a total of three, not two. As he executes this first reload, if you watch closely, his coat moves back slightly and you can see the glint of light on the percussion caps atop the nipples of an extra cylinder on his gun belt.
And... his pistol LOOKs like it is probably an 1861 Navy model. It has the fully rounded barrel rather than the flat sides of the 1851 model. It COULD be the 44 Army model, but the scale doesn't look quite right. The Army model is a bit larger. Hard to tell for certain, though, because Eastwood was a BIG dude.
At the point of his THIRD reload, there is a brief closeup shot that clearly shows the loaded percussion cylinder, removing any doubt. This clip doesn't get quite far enough into the scene to show reload #2 and reload #3.
Last edited:
O would say the FBI/Miami and the Bank of America shootout (BOA LAPD did employee skne K38’s trying head shots from theor PPC team) is an exception to everyday police shootings in the wheelgun days!
1997 North Hollywood bank shootout
www.latimes.com
Attachments
Yes, pull the cylinder pin and the cylinder rolls out. On the cap n ball Colts you have to pull the wedge and remove the barrel and front half of the pistol to get the cylinder out-NOT a recipe for a quick “reload”Good to know. I've always kinda casually passed over many of the technical and "manual of arms" details of these weapons. In recent times, my study of history, study of firearms, and even a little family history have piqued my curiosity and desire to learn a bit more about them. In a recent thread, we went through the lineage of the 38 Special and 357 Magnum as it related to the old 36 cap and ball revolvers. There's a HUGE amount of history behind those shiny brass, lead and copper cartridges.
On the Remingtons, when you say "pull them pin forward", are you talking of the pin on which the cylinder spins? And if one pulls it forward, does the cylinder drop free in a manner much like the Colt SAA and the modern Ruger single actions? I ask because it seems to me that the Colt mechanism (in the cap-and-ball revolvers) would provide a slightly greater assurance against accidentally dropping the cylinder while trying to get the replacement cylinder into location. But, that's just my thought, not based on actual handling.
I plan to buy a replica 1851 Navy Real Soon Now just to explore the world of these old guns and their manual of arms firsthand. I promise not to get addicted
That sounds logical enough... On my "modern" single actions, however, wrestling to get the cylinder re-aligned with the cylinder pin so that the pin will engage is sometimes quite challenging. On the Colt cap-and-ball revolvers, the cylinder pin stays attached to the frame (or is it to the barrel assembly?), so that it's a fairly easy matter to align the cylinder and drop/push it onto the arbor. I'm betting that the old-timers, whichever system they owned, simply practiced and practiced until they "got good" at it, whichever system it was.
Oh darn! Look at that! I just now re-watched the beginning of this clip. That's a Remington (has the top strap) Eastwood has in that scene, not a Colt! And there are a few frames that show (albeit not too clearly) the butt end of the removed cylinder. From those few frames, it appears that it contains brass cartridges, not percussion caps.
I can see exactly what you mean by "simply pull the pin / push the pin". It is almost identical to dropping / reinserting the cylinder on a Colt SAA or a Ruger Blackhawk. Eastwood makes it look easy without even looking down, but I'm guessing that if he messed up they simply did a re-take.
Last edited: