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After all is said and done, don't discount the smallbore pistol.

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Captain O

Master Class
No matter what people (including John Cooper) say, being shot with a full-tilt (read 800+fps) .25 ACP 50-grain FMJ to the head can prove fatal. JMB engineered it to replicate the .22 Long Rifle from a 2-inch barrel.

It may not be optimal, but I wouldn't volunteer to be a "test dummy" to test its short-range efficacy.
 
I'm quite fond of mouse guns. I prefer the .25acp over .22lr because centerfire is more reliable than rimfire.
I have carried a tiny .25 as my primary and only weapon at times.
Its all about understanding the capabilities and limitations of the gun and cartridge. Ain't no powerhouse, but it sure beats harsh language. ;)
 
I don’t think any thinking person would question lethality, I believe the concern is on efficacy is quickly eliminating the threat. Yes a head shot “can” be instantly fatal, however, can a center mass shot reliably stop a threat from causing harm in the short term. This, not lethality, is the real question, and this is where the small calibers tend to come up short. Remember the goal of a justified SD shooting is to stop the assailant-not to kill. If they die from your shot 3 days later on the day of your funeral, it really wasn’t an effective defense…. While no handgun can reliable “stop” an assailant first shot every time, odd go up as caliber does. I’ll admit to having carried mouse guns from time to time in the past (and I love the convenience) they’re not my first choice.
 
I frequently carry a .22 WNR. It's a magnum so it can slay dragons, right?:unsure:
Shibadog, I prefer Claude Werner "CCW is to make a break in contact". I don't give a flying rats tail if the BG is stopped, as long as me and mine are not on his radar. As for .22 short V. 45ACP...
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Reliability and shot placement are key. Reliability is where the .25 shines. JMB was nobody's fool. Back in the day a gut shot virtually guaranteed a slow and painful demise. "Excedrin headache #25" could be fatal as well.
 
The smallest I'll carry is a 32 H&R. I prefer heavier hardcast bullets. I don't see a 22 caliber bullet going through car doors, windows, heavy clothing, or other intermediate barriers a d still being able to stop a threat. Now if I lived somewhere where it was 100 degrees all year round on flat barren land where everyone was under 200lb and skinny, then I might EDC a 22 handgun.
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With a mouse gun you have to change tactics. These things are meant to be used at bad breath distances. Forget center mass. Stick the gun right in the BG's face and pull the trigger several times. Even if he doesn't go down, while he's distracted by the pain and blood, you run like Hell!
The purpose of a self defense handgun is to save your life. It doesn't matter if the BG is dead or incapacitated as long as you get away.
 
All good discussion points. For me if someone is at grayfox's said distance, then I'll be introducing the perp to my two best backups, right and left fists, and elbows, as many times as needed and forget the mousegun. That being said I realize not everyone is a fighter with a build/brawn to back it up with. Hence the need for mouse guns.
 
Captain O said:
No matter what people (including John Cooper) say, being shot with a full-tilt (read 800+fps) .25 ACP 50-grain FMJ to the head can prove fatal. JMB engineered it to replicate the .22 Long Rifle from a 2-inch barrel.

It may not be optimal, but I wouldn't volunteer to be a "test dummy" to test its short-range efficacy.
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my only calibers with any experience would be, 22lr, .38 9mm, .357 mag 45 ACP and 45 Colt

if i had to carry a "small bore" for self defense, i'd go no lower than the .38

maybe any caliber with the right shot placement will do "the job", but i am not a professional shooter, just pretty good...and that's only....."at times", not everytime

i'll relegate my 22lr for fun time and the christmas time shooting contest
 
Condition1 said:
These are referred to around my neck of the woods as bad breath guns. It’s only effective if you can smell the BG’s breath.
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BINGO!

At a range of 1-yard it can disable/kill without difficulty. A well-placed shot can quickly be lethal.


(BTW, a smallbore is generally considered .32" or smaller).
 
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98.6% of the time any shot, regardles of caliber, to the CPU will result in either a mobility or mission kill.
 
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