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Carbine Corner: How Much Magnification Makes Sense on a Defensive Carbine?

SimonRL said:
For home defense I run a 10.5 in AR with a Primary Arms GLX1. I had a 3X magnifier, but even that was overkill so I took it off. @Bassbob turned me on to the Viridian HS1 handstop with green laser. I have it zeroed for 15 yds and it will definitely take care of business inside the house. For range I run 1-6 LPVOs.

The interesting thing is people talk about 100 yds like it’s a long distance, but in a suburban area it is not. I live in a could de sac and it is 50 yds from my garage door to the garage door of my neighbor facing me across the cul de sac. 100 yds is the first street out of the cul de sac, and it is a stones throw.
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Still gonna have a hard time justifying a 100 yard shot.
 
For my area CQB is 0-100 yds. I have various tools in the toolbox for that Zone.

For all those, except one tool, going beyond 100 is a waste of ammo, so the tool box gets more specific.
 
KillerFord1977 said:
Some folks have a 100 yards driveway, or perp #2 in back up.. could be 1000 reasons to take a 100 yards shot and 1000 reasons not to take a 100 yrd shot
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I'd be curious to see the statistics on situations where regular people, not spooks, crooks, soldiers, cops, etc. have had reason to take a 100 yard shot in self defense. It's more than 100 yards from one end of my back yard to the other, but unless someone is over there with a gun shooting at me I'm not sure I could take them out without ending up in jail. And there aren't any states more supportive of armed self defense than mine.
 
SimonRL said:
For home defense I run a 10.5 in AR with a Primary Arms GLX1. I had a 3X magnifier, but even that was overkill so I took it off. @Bassbob turned me on to the Viridian HS1 handstop with green laser. I have it zeroed for 15 yds and it will definitely take care of business inside the house. For range I run 1-6 LPVOs.

The interesting thing is people talk about 100 yds like it’s a long distance, but in a suburban area it is not. I live in a could de sac and it is 50 yds from my garage door to the garage door of my neighbor facing me across the cul de sac. 100 yds is the first street out of the cul de sac, and it is a stones throw.
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I too have a 10.5" with an HS-1 and a 510 as part of my house "attire". It's secondary. Primary is that little 12 gauge loaded with #4 and a series of well placed handguns.
 
Bassbob said:
I'd be curious to see the statistics on situations where regular people, not spooks, crooks, soldiers, cops, etc. have had reason to take a 100 yard shot in self defense. It's more than 100 yards from one end of my back yard to the other, but unless someone is over there with a gun shooting at me I'm not sure I could take them out without ending up in jail. And there aren't any states more supportive of armed self defense than mine.
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All it takes is one. Statistics dont mean a thing if you are the “one”.
Ask those that got bit by a shark, won the lottery or were shot at in a home invasion.
Why we have firearms and insurance 😉
 
KillerFord1977 said:
All it takes is one. Statistics dont mean a thing if you are the “one”.
Ask those that got bit by a shark, won the lottery or were shot at in a home invasion.
Why we have firearms and insurance 😉
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That's all true. Still, I am pretty confident I can get out to 200 or maybe even 300 with good combat accuracy with just a dot. Keep in mind this is all conjecture on my part as I have never used a LPVO. I have considered them, but everything I read about them says that even turned all the way down they are less than ideal for shooting with both eyes open and CQB. I'd like to try one before I buy one and if I did decide to buy one I'm pretty sure I'd want it to be a good one. I'd also like to try one of those Primary Arms Prisms that Simon loves, but I can't bring myself to buy one until I see one for myself. I'm generally not a fan of PA optics.
 
Bassbob said:
That's all true. Still, I am pretty confident I can get out to 200 or maybe even 300 with good combat accuracy with just a dot. Keep in mind this is all conjecture on my part as I have never used a LPVO. I have considered them, but everything I read about them says that even turned all the way down they are less than ideal for shooting with both eyes open and CQB. I'd like to try one before I buy one and if I did decide to buy one I'm pretty sure I'd want it to be a good one. I'd also like to try one of those Primary Arms Prisms that Simon loves, but I can't bring myself to buy one until I see one for myself. I'm generally not a fan of PA optics.
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Im just not a dot fan for anything over 50 yards. My personal opinion, and I have $$$ dots and LPVO
 
I agree. 100-150 yds is realistically defensible- 1.5 football fields. Red dots accurate <50yds. Along with 1x prisms. LPVO’s have more range and one can get fairly proficient at 1-3x with practice. Shotguns are also flexible, especially effective within 50yds. And carbines are more versatile with an LPVO within the entire range discussed.
 
I have a 4x ACOG on my SIG516 with a 45° side mounted EOTECH for bad breath range. My oldest son was a career Special Warfare operator and this is the setup he used on deployments. I have trained with this setup a lot from 1-100 yards and even though the ACOG will get it done over the full range, going to the EOTECH at 15 yards or less works best for me.
 
Bassbob said:
This is the one I have been looking at. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. I am definitely trying to get away from the Chi-com crap and I am an IWI fan.
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The thing is BOMBPROOF........

Requires no batteries, though there is an attachment that will light the reticle now.

My best advice to you if you decide to go with the M21, is follow the instructions on zeroing......

I can recommend them very highly, I own 4 of them
 
My point was that it would be difficult or highly improbable if not impossible to justify shooting someone at or beyond 100 yards using a scope on a carbine, even if they did shoot at you, obviously they missed. Most likely you'll have other options to rectify a situation where your life is in danger. I'm an Army type, I'm not on patrol in a theater of war, but I'll do the same thing, I'll take cover.

I'd think a prosecutor would press the fact that you had the intent to engage at long distances using a scope. My .308 AR 10 has a scope, it's not a "defensive" weapon, it's for hunting, sport or it's an offensive weapon. If you're using an offensive weapon, engaging at long distances, a preemptive strike to defend yourself, you must be in a government sponsored police/political action, (war). That, or Zombies must be running down the street!

My AR pistols with 10.5 inch barrels and the Kuna have LPVO's on them, so do the 12 ga. long guns.
 
Events over the last 10 years have shown that bad actors commit chaos and harm to people and property (G. Floyd riots) to recent time with threat/violence to LEOs, other notable figures (DJT & CK), and the public at extended ranges. Considering the extra bad actors that was imported into the country en-mass over the last 4 years more problems can be expected for the foreseeable future.

State laws regarding self-defense range widely across the country, as well as the characteristics of the areas (rural or urban) folks live in.

In my state ~90+% are long-range conditions, outside the few notable urban areas we have. State law permits one to defend self & property from those committing/or about to commit a forceable felony on either.

If the SHTF and I'm taking fire from beyond CQB range I will defend myself, and/or defend property with a longer-range weapon, as I would if a bad actor is running towards me with a fire bomb of some sort.

If some will only defend themselves when they can see the "whites of the perps eyes", and/or when the perps set fire to their residence(s) then that's their choice.

My .02
 
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