Colt's .22 Diamondback is Back!
- Thread starter Snake45
- Start date
Snake45
Professional
The V-frame was the Trooper Mk V and the original .357 King Cobra. I'm not sure what they're calling the frame that the new Cobras and King Cobras are built on, but it's D-frame size.
Talyn
SAINT
Yes, I partially agree and I agree not sure what frame size Colt is calling the new ones, but they're still not a D-frame.
Is the Colt King Cobra a D frame?
The Colt King Cobra is a stainless steel, double action revolver built on a modified version of Colt's D-Frame. BUT...grips are not interchangeable between the old and new guns, so the frame size of the new King Cobra has deviated from the historical, see the info below.
From the ColtForum (you know all this already but posted for others info)
A simplified reference guide to figure out which frame your Colt revolver has.
D Frame – Long (prior to 1966)
(1907 to 1927, 'narrow' 1-9/16" square butt)
(1928 to 1933, 'wide' 1-3/4" square butt)
(1933 and after, round butt)
E Frame (firing pin mounted on hammer)
www.americanrifleman.org
Is the Colt King Cobra a D frame?
The Colt King Cobra is a stainless steel, double action revolver built on a modified version of Colt's D-Frame. BUT...grips are not interchangeable between the old and new guns, so the frame size of the new King Cobra has deviated from the historical, see the info below.
From the ColtForum (you know all this already but posted for others info)
A simplified reference guide to figure out which frame your Colt revolver has.
D Frame – Long (prior to 1966)
(1907 to 1927, 'narrow' 1-9/16" square butt)
(1928 to 1933, 'wide' 1-3/4" square butt)
(1933 and after, round butt)
- Police Positive Special
- Early Detective Special
- Detective Special
- Cobra
- Agent
- Courier
- Diamondback
- Viper
- Police Positive Special
- Commando Special
- Police Positive
- Police Positive Target (1926 to 1941)
- Bankers Special
- SF-VI
- DS-II
- Magnum Carry
E Frame (firing pin mounted on hammer)
- Army Special
- Official Police
- Officers Model
- Camp Perry (heavily modified E frame)
- Officers Model Target
- Commando
- Officers Model Special
- Border Patrol (1953-1954)
- Officers Model Match
- Marshal
- Trooper (1953-1961)
- Trooper (1961-1969)
- Colt "357"
- Python
- Trooper Mark III
- Lawman Mark III
- Metropolitan Police Mark III
- Officer’s Model Match Mark III
- Official Police Mark III
- Border Patrol (1970-1975)
- Trooper Mark V
- King Cobra
- Anaconda (modified V frame)
- New Pocket
- New Police (modified New Pocket grip frame with longer square butt)
- Pocket Positive (improved New Police frame)
- Police Positive (only the 'small' frame .32 New Police model)
- Police Positive Target (1907 to 1925)
- New Service
- U.S. Model 1909
- U.S. Model 1917
- Shooting Master (Same grip frame but different grips)
An Official Journal Of The NRA | Review: Colt King Cobra
Don’t fret if you can’t afford a vintage Snake Gun—a new generation has arrived. The powerful but portable Colt King Cobra .357 Mag. is back with enhanced performance and a lower price.
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Talyn
SAINT
Some have said...The frame is about the same size as the S&W "K" frame and the Colt and S&W "K" frame cylinders are the same diameter.
and
...the New Cobra and King Cobra are upgraded Colt SFVI/DS-II and Magnum Carry models. The new models are built on the same size SF-VI frame and cylinder, which itself was an upgraded "D" frame changed to stainless steel and with a transfer bar action.
and
...the New Cobra and King Cobra are upgraded Colt SFVI/DS-II and Magnum Carry models. The new models are built on the same size SF-VI frame and cylinder, which itself was an upgraded "D" frame changed to stainless steel and with a transfer bar action.
Snake45
Professional
Smith K and Colt D cylinder diameters are nearly identical at around, IIRC, 1.4 inches. Smith K frame is a little bigger and heavier than the Colt D frame. I don't have one of the "new" Cobras/King Cobras so I'm not 100% certain, but I suspect it's in the ballpark of the D frame. The "new" guns (including the .22 KC) might be on the SF frame on your chart above.
N
nmedge
Guest
Too much for my blood.
Talyn
SAINT
No. Only SS.
Annihilator
Emissary
Nice breakdown, thanksYes, I partially agree and I agree not sure what frame size Colt is calling the new ones, but they're still not a D-frame.
Is the Colt King Cobra a D frame?
The Colt King Cobra is a stainless steel, double action revolver built on a modified version of Colt's D-Frame. BUT...grips are not interchangeable between the old and new guns, so the frame size of the new King Cobra has deviated from the historical, see the info below.
From the ColtForum (you know all this already but posted for others info)
A simplified reference guide to figure out which frame your Colt revolver has.
D Frame – Long (prior to 1966)
(1907 to 1927, 'narrow' 1-9/16" square butt)
(1928 to 1933, 'wide' 1-3/4" square butt)
(1933 and after, round butt)
D Frame – Short (after 1966)
- Police Positive Special
- Early Detective Special
C Frame (Same grips as D Frame – Long)
- Detective Special
- Cobra
- Agent
- Courier
- Diamondback
- Viper
- Police Positive Special
- Commando Special
SF Frame
- Police Positive
- Police Positive Target (1926 to 1941)
- Bankers Special
E & I Frame (Same frame, different firing pin mounts)
- SF-VI
- DS-II
- Magnum Carry
E Frame (firing pin mounted on hammer)
I Frame (firing pin mounted in frame)
- Army Special
- Official Police
- Officers Model
- Camp Perry (heavily modified E frame)
- Officers Model Target
- Commando
- Officers Model Special
- Border Patrol (1953-1954)
- Officers Model Match
- Marshal
- Trooper (1953-1961)
J Frame
- Trooper (1961-1969)
- Colt "357"
- Python
V Frame
- Trooper Mark III
- Lawman Mark III
- Metropolitan Police Mark III
- Officer’s Model Match Mark III
- Official Police Mark III
- Border Patrol (1970-1975)
MM Frame
- Trooper Mark V
- King Cobra
Small Frame (New Pocket)
- Anaconda (modified V frame)
G Frame
- New Pocket
- New Police (modified New Pocket grip frame with longer square butt)
Large Frame (New Service)
- Pocket Positive (improved New Police frame)
- Police Positive (only the 'small' frame .32 New Police model)
- Police Positive Target (1907 to 1925)
This article doesn't explain what frame size the new pistol really is, and since D-frame grips won't fit (without modification) I still wouldn't call it a D-frame.
- New Service
- U.S. Model 1909
- U.S. Model 1917
- Shooting Master (Same grip frame but different grips)
An Official Journal Of The NRA | Review: Colt King Cobra
Don’t fret if you can’t afford a vintage Snake Gun—a new generation has arrived. The powerful but portable Colt King Cobra .357 Mag. is back with enhanced performance and a lower price.
jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Great listing and description of frames ..... can you explain/point out the difference between for the MkIII (J frame) and MkV (V frame) Troopers? I know you already listed them as a different frame, but what is the actual difference? Holding the two up together I've not seen a distinguishing or marked difference but would like to know.Yes, I partially agree and I agree not sure what frame size Colt is calling the new ones, but they're still not a D-frame.
Is the Colt King Cobra a D frame?
The Colt King Cobra is a stainless steel, double action revolver built on a modified version of Colt's D-Frame. BUT...grips are not interchangeable between the old and new guns, so the frame size of the new King Cobra has deviated from the historical, see the info below.
From the ColtForum (you know all this already but posted for others info)
A simplified reference guide to figure out which frame your Colt revolver has.
D Frame – Long (prior to 1966)
(1907 to 1927, 'narrow' 1-9/16" square butt)
(1928 to 1933, 'wide' 1-3/4" square butt)
(1933 and after, round butt)
D Frame – Short (after 1966)
- Police Positive Special
- Early Detective Special
C Frame (Same grips as D Frame – Long)
- Detective Special
- Cobra
- Agent
- Courier
- Diamondback
- Viper
- Police Positive Special
- Commando Special
SF Frame
- Police Positive
- Police Positive Target (1926 to 1941)
- Bankers Special
E & I Frame (Same frame, different firing pin mounts)
- SF-VI
- DS-II
- Magnum Carry
E Frame (firing pin mounted on hammer)
I Frame (firing pin mounted in frame)
- Army Special
- Official Police
- Officers Model
- Camp Perry (heavily modified E frame)
- Officers Model Target
- Commando
- Officers Model Special
- Border Patrol (1953-1954)
- Officers Model Match
- Marshal
- Trooper (1953-1961)
J Frame
- Trooper (1961-1969)
- Colt "357"
- Python
V Frame
- Trooper Mark III
- Lawman Mark III
- Metropolitan Police Mark III
- Officer’s Model Match Mark III
- Official Police Mark III
- Border Patrol (1970-1975)
MM Frame
- Trooper Mark V
- King Cobra
Small Frame (New Pocket)
- Anaconda (modified V frame)
G Frame
- New Pocket
- New Police (modified New Pocket grip frame with longer square butt)
Large Frame (New Service)
- Pocket Positive (improved New Police frame)
- Police Positive (only the 'small' frame .32 New Police model)
- Police Positive Target (1907 to 1925)
This article doesn't explain what frame size the new pistol really is, and since D-frame grips won't fit (without modification) I still wouldn't call it a D-frame.
- New Service
- U.S. Model 1909
- U.S. Model 1917
- Shooting Master (Same grip frame but different grips)
An Official Journal Of The NRA | Review: Colt King Cobra
Don’t fret if you can’t afford a vintage Snake Gun—a new generation has arrived. The powerful but portable Colt King Cobra .357 Mag. is back with enhanced performance and a lower price.
Thanks and regards, JJ
Talyn
SAINT
Normally. the main difference in frames are their sizes, but with the Trooper-family the frame differences are subtle, and the differences are mainly internal. For every Trooper change Colt made a frame-category change based on the subtle changes.
The Mk. III series was an economy version of the earlier Trooper/357 line (ran from 1961 to ~1968) when the "new" Colt Mk. III was introduced. An analogy is like the economy differences between Pre 64 vs. Post 64 Winchesters. Note: The 357 was absorbed into the original Trooper line in 1961 by simply changing the Troopers caliber to .357 magnum.
The Trooper Mk. III used sintered metal parts and requiring less hand fitting, they were cheaper to manufacture and lower maintenance than the previous design.
The Mk. V action did away with the sintered metal parts and was slightly smaller than the Mk. III action (Colt was trying to compete with the K-frame S&Ws). It was also smoother than the Mk. III and had a shorter hammer throw hence a shorter lock time.
Note: there's some debate on the actual frame-size for the original King Cobra. One is the V-frame (listed above) and others say it was the AA-frame. Some say...the "AA" frame is nothing more than the "V" frame with a different barrel, and was first made in stainless steel, later in blue.
Mk. III series started in ~1968, and evolved into the Mk.V series starting around 1980. The original Trooper was discontinued, and that design series evolved into the King Cobra in SS or blue in the early 80s.
The Mk. III series was an economy version of the earlier Trooper/357 line (ran from 1961 to ~1968) when the "new" Colt Mk. III was introduced. An analogy is like the economy differences between Pre 64 vs. Post 64 Winchesters. Note: The 357 was absorbed into the original Trooper line in 1961 by simply changing the Troopers caliber to .357 magnum.
The Trooper Mk. III used sintered metal parts and requiring less hand fitting, they were cheaper to manufacture and lower maintenance than the previous design.
The Mk. V action did away with the sintered metal parts and was slightly smaller than the Mk. III action (Colt was trying to compete with the K-frame S&Ws). It was also smoother than the Mk. III and had a shorter hammer throw hence a shorter lock time.
Note: there's some debate on the actual frame-size for the original King Cobra. One is the V-frame (listed above) and others say it was the AA-frame. Some say...the "AA" frame is nothing more than the "V" frame with a different barrel, and was first made in stainless steel, later in blue.
Mk. III series started in ~1968, and evolved into the Mk.V series starting around 1980. The original Trooper was discontinued, and that design series evolved into the King Cobra in SS or blue in the early 80s.
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jumpinjoe
Hellcat
Great info, thanks. I have both a MkIII and a MkV and have wondered the real difference. Side by side they're much the same in appearance. Thanks again, JJ