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Comments now Opened to ATF on Pistol Braced Gun Ban

It was a tightrope walk. You try to express your concerns without coming off as threatening or anarchistic. The worst part, leaving my name and address. Now they know right where to go.
Although I don’t own a braced AR Pistol I would like to comment however opening the door to the ATF by giving them my personal information is not going to happen. I’ve got a bad feeling they are doing this just to know who to visit first. My opinion.
 
That's my point. You want to help the cause. You want to show support and strength in numbers. What I'm not trying to do is be a martyr. Again, love my country, fear my government.


I think most of us feel this way. Me as much or more than anyone. The thing that isn't going to happen ( in our lifetimes anyway) is the government sending agents to your door to confiscate your guns by force. Not because they wouldn't like to, but because it isn't feasible. For many reasons.
 
I think most of us feel this way. Me as much or more than anyone. The thing that isn't going to happen ( in our lifetimes anyway) is the government sending agents to your door to confiscate your guns by force. Not because they wouldn't like to, but because it isn't feasible. For many reasons.
You're not implying that they learned lessons are you? You gotta see some of the news reports we see here in Chicagoland. Armored cars and swat teams roll out a lot more than you'd think. That's local law enforcement. They're doing their job. I'm not disputing that. My concern is when some bureaucrat with an alphabet badge says, "yep, that one." And it could be any of us, but i guarantee, it won't be all of us. Not at one time. It'll be death by a thousand cuts. Prune a little here, trim a little there. Next thing, there's only a handful of what was us, hiding. The tree of liberty will be whittled down to a twig.
Yeah, overreaching government is scary. I know i sound like a kook, but I remember Waco and Ruby Ridge. I remember Janet Reno destroying lives for gun control. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer were there cheering her on. Who gave her the strength to act on behalf of the people, Sleepy Joe and the slime bill of 94. Since he likes to take credit for that fiasco.
I also remember the revolution of the angry white male. It's when white, male, gun owning, hetero Christians decided it was time to take back our government. 96, we took back the house and Senate but for some reason gave the white house back to a philandering dimwit who truly earned his impeachment.
I know we're not supposed to get political, but gun ownership and its future is entwined in politics beginning to end, even though it is constitutionally protected.
I'll get off the soapbox now.
 
You're not implying that they learned lessons are you? You gotta see some of the news reports we see here in Chicagoland. Armored cars and swat teams roll out a lot more than you'd think. That's local law enforcement. They're doing their job. I'm not disputing that. My concern is when some bureaucrat with an alphabet badge says, "yep, that one." And it could be any of us, but i guarantee, it won't be all of us. Not at one time. It'll be death by a thousand cuts. Prune a little here, trim a little there. Next thing, there's only a handful of what was us, hiding. The tree of liberty will be whittled down to a twig.
Yeah, overreaching government is scary. I know i sound like a kook, but I remember Waco and Ruby Ridge. I remember Janet Reno destroying lives for gun control. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer were there cheering her on. Who gave her the strength to act on behalf of the people, Sleepy Joe and the slime bill of 94. Since he likes to take credit for that fiasco.
I also remember the revolution of the angry white male. It's when white, male, gun owning, hetero Christians decided it was time to take back our government. 96, we took back the house and Senate but for some reason gave the white house back to a philandering dimwit who truly earned his impeachment.
I know we're not supposed to get political, but gun ownership and its future is entwined in politics beginning to end, even though it is constitutionally protected.
I'll get off the soapbox now.
No, I'm implying that if the feds decided to start confiscating guns from legal gun owners, A) they would have very little help from local LEO ( it's illegal for LEO to help them do that in my state) and B) public opinion would turn on them so fast that the limited number of federal agents who were attempting to come and take citizens guns from them would get the living **** shot out of them. Or they would be killing a bunch of innocent people which would turn EVERYBODY against them. The idea that the feds have the resources to go around the country storming the houses of everyone with a 4473 is ridiculous and mostly the result of Rambo, Boogaloo Boy types bragging about how they would love to see the feds come try that at THEIR house, blah, blah, blah.

It's not going to happen dude. Unless you do something F'ed up that puts you on everyone's radar and they can appear to have legitimate cause to come and take your ****, it's never going to happen. Not in your lifetime. Maybe someday in the future if the vast majority of Americans view guns as evil and possession of them as criminal, it's simply not going to happen.
 
There are several sides to this coin. Once upon a time I owned two walk in safes; one filled with a collection of top shelf pieces, (love black guns) the other with 20K plus rounds of fodder for them. All without “paper”. If your inventory needs reduction just wait till the wifey says “divorce”! To this day I remain “snow white & squeaky clean” as the law goes but, had my “arsenal” been questioned for ownership, how could I prove they were mine to keep? And then what? So I once was and understand the psych of “privacy” concerning firearms ( and many other things ) from Uncle Sammy; he has no legitimate right into any of it.

But as the years passed (and my reading and knowledge increased) plus the Spiritual view coming dominant my perspective changed. And it is a certain thing that every keystroke is a retrievable record so if I (or you) have hinted at 2nd Amendment interest or activity then we are known - the details will soon follow, so what am I out to object or oppose existing or proposed laws on the matter? To believe that “they”, “the Gov’ment” does not already know or can not discover the details of what we think are unknown is simply to be naive, or worse, uniformed. Are we to believe Agents do not monitor (even participate) in forums such as this? Or track IPS addresses into a dossier? Google and everyone else does.

What? I volunteered and opposed the Commies in that far away land so many years ago and I should be fearful of them now, at home? No; rather than secret away or fool myself that my opinions are not known, better to join the outspoken voices of opposition in hopes of (peacefully) maintaining our rights. Tyranny gobbles up the (silent) lamb, the (roaring) lion may slow him down.

But these are intensely personal choices. I’m not advocating anything for you, only expressing what my conscience will tolerate. Since I’m (like it or not) an open book to my enemies why be silent about protecting what is sacred to me………the Word of God, The Declaration Of Independence Of The United States Of America, The Constitution, and all of my rights as an American citizen? I fought for it there, should I surrender here?

Sooner rather than later one will have to make the choice: What is my Freedom worth to me and what am I willing to give up/sacrifice before fighting for it? We have all given up much already. Best to fight in words and votes and petitions and persuasion first. Or is it already too late?

I sure wish I had BassBobs confidence but I don’t. I share his confidence that it may not happen soon, but if American Citizens don’t regrow a (moral) spine it surely will.
 
Both of you fellas make good arguments (conversation) I, me, will continue to sign the petitions, dissent letters and points of opposition. BUT, I will do it while wearing my tinfoil hat, in my aluminum foil wallpapered hideaway.🤣
 
I strongly agree that it’s a personal choice for each individual whether or not to sign a petition of any kind. I was once one that feared signing, thinking that “then I’ll be known, etc.” Now I’m of the same thoughts expressed in the poem below:

“FIRST THEY CAME By Martin Niemöller

First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me.”


I feel that If people don’t speak out to the government concerning any overreach, it will affirm to them they have the right to do so, and they will continue to take from and restrict their fellow citizens. This isn’t just for firearms or the 2nd amendment, but on any rights or injustices. It’s been said that the Founding Fathers didn’t write the Bill of Rights for the people, as these rights were inherent to all individuals. They wrote them to document the inherent rights the government can not infringe upon.
 
Both of you fellas make good arguments (conversation) I, me, will continue to sign the petitions, dissent letters and points of opposition. BUT, I will do it while wearing my tinfoil hat, in my aluminum foil wallpapered hideaway.🤣


There is a difference between having your eyes open to what your government is capable of and almost certainly doing covertly and resigning yourself to the idea that there is nothing you can do about it ( which is patently false). Not to mention that just because you know they have your information that doesn't mean you should just say screw it and say whatever you're thinking in front of anyone who happens to be there. What I mean is that going on Facebook and talking about how you can't wait until the feds try that **** with you is absolutely not the same thing as signing a petition lobbying government officials against infringing on your constitutional rights. One guy is a citizen peacefully arguing for his rights and the other is an idiot at best and a wack job at worst.


Back tracking for a second from the earlier post regarding Chicago. I live in St. Louis. I spent the last 9 years working for a utility on the streets of north St. Louis. I know half the jump boys ( SWAT) in the city because I see them very often. I also am personal friends with an inordinate amount of city and county cops. Pretty much to a man they are in favor of armed citizenry and I would be surprised if 10% of police officers nationwide would obey orders to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens. Yeah, I am drawing my opinions from a small pool of LEO, but like Chicago ( we actually have the most murders per capita in the US and have for years) St. Louis is a very violent place. The fact that officers in the city are woefully underpaid and engage violent, dangerous people on a daily basis and yet they still are strongly pro 2A gives me confidence that my assessment on a nationwide scale is probably pretty close.

Hell, almost all the good instructors who teach tactical and CC classes around here are current or former LEO. I'm taking a class the 10th of next month at the facility of a current police captain I know who is a retired Marine Raider.
 
I'm agreeing with you on some points Bass, but then there are Chiefs around the country, Miami for one, that, if the policy they speak is a reflection of the force at large then they believe as Far Lefts, and may enforce against a law abiding citizen whatever the Chief or the Administration directs.

And to re varnish past comments, I believe the Firearms confiscation by Uncle Sammy, when it comes to nationwide enforcement will not be in the form of a door to door search & seizure but rather a "voluntary" turn in with a monetary incentive to do so, such as tax credits, cash payments or other combinations that a significant number of enthusiasts will comply with the "law", specially in the states that support the federal law. Folks will compromise much if the $$$$ are flashing in their eyes and they don't have to risk sacrifice by taking a stand. Then after a time limit has expired the remainder of us will then be categorized as "law breakers" and "criminals" or even "terrorists" and at this point and with claims by news media of "insurrectionists", "traitors", and "far right crazies that want to overthrow the government" ect.ect. ( it does not have to be fact, it only has to appear real to the majority) the Gestapo like confiscations (carried out by Federal LE, thus bypassing the need of local LE) will ensue to the applause of a majority of the naive/ignorant/cowardly citizenry.
Thats just one scenario; Tyranny will dupe the folks to get its way but after a certain point, finesse is out the window; you can obey the commands or feel the jack booted result.
 
Below find the comment I just added to the Justice Department Federal Registry link below:


Feel free to use as a template to submit you own comment. Not being a "wordsmith", I will take NO offense if you want to heavily modify my comments.

"I find this proposed rule change highly unacceptable. It is not only a constitutional violation of an individual’s Second Amendment right, but by enacting a new law, by modifying the existing NFA laws, it is also unconstitutional, as it has not being written nor passed by the U.S. Congress. As an executive branch agency, the ATF should not be creating new laws, which is effectively what this rule does. Such decisions should be left to the people’s representatives in Congress.

As law-abiding gun owners, this new rule is written so vague, that it will make it difficult for anyone to know whether any given firearm that had legally been purchased with some prior legal accessories added, is now considered a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR), or not . This rule seems to be written in a way, that the ATF can always go back on a legally recognized customized firearm, and say it is now considered illegal, unless it goes through the SBR federal requirements. This also makes the ATF the “Judge and Jury” on what a company’s intent was concerning their once legally AFT “blessed” pistol brace, by saying it was designed to be shouldered, instead of its use as a forearm brace. People that own these braces don’t want to go to jail and be heavily fined, just because a product that was legal is suddenly declared illegal based on an arbitrary decision by ATF leadership. There are likely over 40,000,000 legally purchased pistol braces and configured pistol braced firearms in common use and in the public domain at this present time.

As we slowly come out of this horrific pandemic, the last expense the people need is an added tax to go on top of their expensive legally purchased firearm(s). Additionally, this proposed new “rule” (really law), will most certainly be legally challenged in the courts as being considered unconstitutional towards the Second Amendment. It may also be challenged being unconstitutional as a law written and then enforced by an Executive Branch agency (ATF), and not written by the Legislative Branch of the Government, which was intended and written by the Founding Fathers into our Constitution. These legal challenges will therefore incur additional cost to the U.S. taxpayer (many of them firearm owners), and with the length of multiple court hearings, decisions and appeals, accumulating ever further Taxpayer expense.

With these points that I have outlined, and trying to keep these comments brief, I strongly oppose this new rule being proposed."
 
Can we say that word anymore? Isn't that somehow condescending towards native Americans? Frankly I think most would say that word is a word of friendship and comradeship. But I'm sure someone out there would likely take offense to it. ;);)
Old school here, I don’t believe in that woke crap, that’s the problem with today, nobody has any testicular fortitude…🤫
 
Below find the comment I just added to the Justice Department Federal Registry link below:


Feel free to use as a template to submit you own comment. Not being a "wordsmith", I will take NO offense if you want to heavily modify my comments.

"I find this proposed rule change highly unacceptable. It is not only a constitutional violation of an individual’s Second Amendment right, but by enacting a new law, by modifying the existing NFA laws, it is also unconstitutional, as it has not being written nor passed by the U.S. Congress. As an executive branch agency, the ATF should not be creating new laws, which is effectively what this rule does. Such decisions should be left to the people’s representatives in Congress.

As law-abiding gun owners, this new rule is written so vague, that it will make it difficult for anyone to know whether any given firearm that had legally been purchased with some prior legal accessories added, is now considered a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR), or not . This rule seems to be written in a way, that the ATF can always go back on a legally recognized customized firearm, and say it is now considered illegal, unless it goes through the SBR federal requirements. This also makes the ATF the “Judge and Jury” on what a company’s intent was concerning their once legally AFT “blessed” pistol brace, by saying it was designed to be shouldered, instead of its use as a forearm brace. People that own these braces don’t want to go to jail and be heavily fined, just because a product that was legal is suddenly declared illegal based on an arbitrary decision by ATF leadership. There are likely over 40,000,000 legally purchased pistol braces and configured pistol braced firearms in common use and in the public domain at this present time.

As we slowly come out of this horrific pandemic, the last expense the people need is an added tax to go on top of their expensive legally purchased firearm(s). Additionally, this proposed new “rule” (really law), will most certainly be legally challenged in the courts as being considered unconstitutional towards the Second Amendment. It may also be challenged being unconstitutional as a law written and then enforced by an Executive Branch agency (ATF), and not written by the Legislative Branch of the Government, which was intended and written by the Founding Fathers into our Constitution. These legal challenges will therefore incur additional cost to the U.S. taxpayer (many of them firearm owners), and with the length of multiple court hearings, decisions and appeals, accumulating ever further Taxpayer expense.

With these points that I have outlined, and trying to keep these comments brief, I strongly oppose this new rule being proposed."
Make sure anyone using you as a template is modifying and customizing heavily, they throw out copy and paste and only answer the first one.
 
Make sure anyone using you as a template is modifying and customizing heavily, they throw out copy and paste and only answer the first one.
I agree the comments should be modified, since individual comments carry more weight than a mass produced comment everyone submits. I won't be getting any answer, as the Federal Registry is only for comments that will be read and kept on file about said proposal. The GOA "Take Action" comment template (although I suppose one could add to it), generally gets submited as is, by the many that decide to submit it. To my knowledge, those aren't being discarded as far as I know.
 
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