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Concealed Carry at Work



Sooner or later whenever this topic comes up I post this video.

Full disclosure I've had a couple conversations with this guy and he is an a*****e. That said, he's actually pretty knowledgeable about his topic.

The basic narrative of the video is that he was in a sales position in a very small industry.

It was an open secret that he carried a gun at work. Everybody he worked with knew about it, nobody really cared.

Then the company he worked for got bought out by a larger competitor. The competitor had a very strict no firearms policy and they fired him shortly after they took over the company. I might be wrong what I'm about to say but and he'll say one way or the other in the video but if I remember right they didn't even give him any warning. They didn't even reiterate their policy and give him a chance to comply.

Shortly after they took over the company they called him into the office told him they were firing him. They had somebody search his cubicle they found the gun and they walked him off the property

I said it before, he was a sales rep in a very small industry it took him over a year to find a job because every company that he went and applied to already knew that he'd been fired from the other company for carrying a gun on the clock.

When I worked as a security guard it was a similar situation. There were three main companies in Colorado Springs HSS, G4S and Allied. I very rarely would work on a site where there wasn't somebody there that I had worked with before for another company.

So depending on what your industry is your past will follow you
 
Having spent most of my life working on heavy trucks and equipment, carrying at work was not only forbidden, it was just plain impractical. The poor gun would have probably gotten beaten to death. :rolleyes:
 
Mr. Untactical said:
Years ago, before I even thought about buying and carrying a firearm, I was shooting at my Air Force Base's range. A gentleman and I had a conversation and he said, "If you ever decide to carry a gun, you have to be prepared to use it when the situation demands action. The philosophy is simple:

- Don't carry a gun unless you're willing to use it
- If you carry a gun, don't draw it from the holster unless you're ready and willing to shoot the threat
- If you feel justified in shooting someone, shoot to kill

I think he closed with something like, "A gun isn't a toy, son, it's a tool. And if you plan on using the tool, use it wisely - and with prejudice."

That was some functional advice. I think it stands up still, today.
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All except the "shoot to kill" makes good sense. Defensive shooting is shooting to end the deadly force threat to yourself or others -full stop. You do that most effectively by shooting to the center of body mass or the central nervous system. That shooting those areas may cause the person to die is irrelevant. Once the threat is ended you have no right to keep shooting.

The only people that have legal authority to intentionally "shoot to kill" are those executing a Death Warrant signed by a Governor; the Commander In Chief when authorizing a military execution or the Attorney General authorizing a Federal death sentence be carried out.
 
Substitute :

Shoot , with intent & attempt to make shoot -ee imeadately fall down and stop moving , thus ceasing whatever dangerous threat they were doing that necessitied them being shot .

Whether or not they subsequently survive to serve time , is not important consideration .



In practice, pretty much same thing , and a lot word -ier .

Just try to.avoid the Houston Taco Coup 'd Gras .
 
FNFAN said:
All except the "shoot to kill" makes good sense. Defensive shooting is shooting to end the deadly force threat to yourself or others -full stop. You do that most effectively by shooting to the center of body mass or the central nervous system.
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This all seems like Semantics to me.

I think what they're saying is if you draw your gun you don't shoot them in the leg or shoot them in the shoulder to just "wing" them.

As you said, you am Center Mass and you keep shooting as long as they're a threat.
 
FNFAN said:
All except the "shoot to kill" makes good sense. Defensive shooting is shooting to end the deadly force threat to yourself or others -full stop. You do that most effectively by shooting to the center of body mass or the central nervous system. That shooting those areas may cause the person to die is irrelevant. Once the threat is ended you have no right to keep shooting.

The only people that have legal authority to intentionally "shoot to kill" are those executing a Death Warrant signed by a Governor; the Commander In Chief when authorizing a military execution or the Attorney General authorizing a Federal death sentence be carried out.
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I know that, you know that, and the gentleman who explained it to me probably knew it, too. It's interesting though; why do most training classes I've taken include timed versions of the Mozambique Drill, el Presidente, etc. These and other popular scenario-based training drills are clearly designed to improve speed and accuracy, while ensuring the rapid end of the threat., Of course, doing so utilizing these processes will likely end in the antagonist's demise as well.
 
The Night Rider said:
This all seems like Semantics to me.

I think what they're saying is if you draw your gun you don't shoot them in the leg or shoot them in the shoulder to just "wing" them.

As you said, you am Center Mass and you keep shooting as long as they're a threat.
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If you were charged with murder by some anti-gun prosecutor after a defensive shooting, which of the following two statements you could have made would you like the jury to take back to the deliberation room:

1. "I thought he was going to kill me, so I was forced to fire my gun to stop the threat against my life. As soon as I saw he wasn't a threat I stopped firing and called the police and emergency medical assistance for them"

2. "I thought he was going to kill me and I was told that you always shoot to kill, so that's what I did."

It definitely is semantics and your words effect how you are perceived by others. Many lay-people already think that defensive gun carriers are a "blood-thirsty" bunch "just looking to kill people."

The more fully you portray yourself as a reasonable, caring person who was unwillingly forced to respond to another person's attack, the better you'll be perceived. IMHO
 
FNFAN said:
If you were charged with murder by some anti-gun prosecutor after a defensive shooting, which of the following two statements you could have made would you like the jury to take back to the deliberation room:

1. "I thought he was going to kill me, so I was forced to fire my gun to stop the threat against my life. As soon as I saw he wasn't a threat I stopped firing and called the police and emergency medical assistance for them"

2. "I thought he was going to kill me and I was told that you always shoot to kill, so that's what I did."

It definitely is semantics and your words effect how you are perceived by others. Many lay-people already think that defensive gun carriers are a "blood-thirsty" bunch "just looking to kill people."

The more fully you portray yourself as a reasonable, caring person who was unwillingly forced to respond to another person's attack, the better you'll be perceived. IMHO
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Sigh.

Yes. To be clear, I understand (and agree) that it's bad form (and a really bad idea) to articulate in the hearing of law enforcement and/or prosecuting attorneys that my goal in a justified self-defense shooting was to kill someone trying to kill or inflict grievous bodily harm upon me and my loved ones, rather than the carefully crafted version that instead conveys some version of, "I was in fear for my life and was forced to defend myself."

For this same reason, I don't have "Molon Labe (ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ)," skulls and crossbones, "This end toward enemy," or anything for that matter, cerakoted on my firearms. While I have upgraded various components of my AR and other rifles to improve shooting performance, my carry pistols are stock, except for night sights (and some of those are stock as well) and red dot optics. My kydex holsters are plain also, with no provocative messaging, American flag graphics, or anything, just plain, black or blue kydex.

I'm boring. I'm old. I love my wife and our sons. I believe in the risen Lord Jesus. In the unlikely and unfortunate scenario that I am forced to defend myself, my family, or potentially intervene in some public shooting (although this one will have a very high bar to clear for me to get involved), I will aim center mass and try my best not to mag dump into the poor miscreant who put me in the position to have to exercise my innate right of self defense. In an effort to be seen as a normal person exercising said right, I will do everything possible to present myself as the aggrieved party in said scenario.

And just so I'm crystal clear, I will struggle in the aftermath of having had to shoot or, God forbid, even take the life of another human being. So, no, I am not a vigilante who believes - when that man told me "shoot to kill" - I have a license to end anyone who changes lanes in front of me without their turn signal. I am not an internet tactical wanna-be, hence "Untactical." I'm just a guy who finds target shooting enjoyable and who has made the momentous decision to carry a firearm in self defense as the U.S. Constitution allows.

I hope I've cleared up any lingering idea anyone may have that I'm one of "those" firearm carriers.

Thank you for your time and attention.
 
The Night Rider said:
I've told this story MULTIPLE times before. The only job that I ever had that I carried concealed on the on the clock against company policy was when I was working as a security guard.

I found this law once and I was never able to find it again but apparently according to the Colorado revised code it's a Class 2 misdemeanor for a security guard to carry a firearm on site unless he has a Firearms endorsement on his security license and the site is armed. So, when I worked for G4S I had a Firearms endorsement on my license. When I was working as a Metro Rover which was designated as an armed position I was supposed to carry a gun. When I was working as a City Rover which is a designated unarmed position even though it's the same job, I wasn't supposed to carry a gun.

In May of 2018 a security guard named Scott Tice was murdered by a homeless guy who he was trying to remove from the Denver Center for the Performing Arts.

We both worked for Allied Universal but in different cities and to my knowledge we never met. I never would have heard of him had we not both worked for Allied.

Anyway that was the night that I decided that I wasn't going to die like that and from that night until I retired in October of 2021 I never ever went to work without a gun.

I usually carried my Glock 26 in a pocket holster in the pocket of my uniform pants under my stylish yellow safety vest. I have no idea who may or may not have known that I was carrying a gun. Nobody questioned me about it ever nobody even hinted that they thought I might be. I'm pretty sure if the management of Allied knew they would have fired me on the spot.

I've got another discussion going right now about why people seem to pick me out of the crowd to tell me that they're carrying a gun and it seemed like it was a lot of my coworkers that did that but none of my coworkers ever hinted that they thought I was carrying a gun on the clock.

I had one supervisor that did a couple of times and every time he did I made certain that he understood that I knew it was against the law and I told him that I would never ever do that and I shut the conversation down.

I also want to add that almost every position I ever had as a security guard I was working by myself. Most of the time after the business I was guarding was closed. So I was the only one there and it wasn't like I had a bunch of coworkers to hide my gun from.
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what kind of logic defines a security guard as unarmed? thats a tour guide
 
Mr. Untactical said:
Sigh.

Yes. To be clear, I understand (and agree) that it's bad form (and a really bad idea) to articulate in the hearing of law enforcement and/or prosecuting attorneys that my goal in a justified self-defense shooting was to kill someone trying to kill or inflict grievous bodily harm upon me and my loved ones, rather than the carefully crafted version that instead conveys some version of, "I was in fear for my life and was forced to defend myself."

For this same reason, I don't have "Molon Labe (ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ)," skulls and crossbones, "This end toward enemy," or anything for that matter, cerakoted on my firearms. While I have upgraded various components of my AR and other rifles to improve shooting performance, my carry pistols are stock, except for night sights (and some of those are stock as well) and red dot optics. My kydex holsters are plain also, with no provocative messaging, American flag graphics, or anything, just plain, black or blue kydex.

I'm boring. I'm old. I love my wife and our sons. I believe in the risen Lord Jesus. In the unlikely and unfortunate scenario that I am forced to defend myself, my family, or potentially intervene in some public shooting (although this one will have a very high bar to clear for me to get involved), I will aim center mass and try my best not to mag dump into the poor miscreant who put me in the position to have to exercise my innate right of self defense. In an effort to be seen as a normal person exercising said right, I will do everything possible to present myself as the aggrieved party in said scenario.

And just so I'm crystal clear, I will struggle in the aftermath of having had to shoot or, God forbid, even take the life of another human being. So, no, I am not a vigilante who believes - when that man told me "shoot to kill" - I have a license to end anyone who changes lanes in front of me without their turn signal. I am not an internet tactical wanna-be, hence "Untactical." I'm just a guy who finds target shooting enjoyable and who has made the momentous decision to carry a firearm in self defense as the U.S. Constitution allows.

I hope I've cleared up any lingering idea anyone may have that I'm one of "those" firearm carriers.

Thank you for your time and attention.
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No reason to sigh! That's a reasonable, moral and totally down to earth attitude about potentially taking someone's life in a defensive shooting. Certain 'words of wisdom' and olde-timey axioms of the 'gun culture' fascinate me. I have several hot buttons about different subjects and this is one of the small ones. I also realize many people are engrained and crystalized in their opinions and could give a shite on what my thoughts are.
 
I've worked for two different companies over the last 2 decades. I've also had second and seasonal jobs during this time period. All of them had strick "no weapons" policies which included anything and everything that was a weapon from knives, firearms, etc... I've always carried a firearm. I don't tell anyone that I do, including friends and family. Only I know.
 
How many times have we heard about an Uber driver, Door Dasher, pizza delivery driver, convenience store clerk, doctor, restaurant worker, so on and so forth who was put into a situation where they had to eminently defend their lives or the lives of others with their carry gun? I've heard of a few dozen cases over years. I'm sure I can find several examples and cite them here if anyone wishes.

I live in VA. I even recall the 2019 Virginia Beach, VA Municipal Center building mass shooting. Katherine ‘Kate’ Nixon's husband wanted his wife to secretly carry her EDC the night before she was murdered. She chose not too because she feared loosing her job. Well guess what? Not even 12 hours later, she lost her job and her life. Her husband lost his wife, and her three daughters lost their mother.
The night before Kate was murdered, she sat Jason down at the table and told him she wanted to take a gun to work because a disgruntled co-worker was being fired and was threatening.

"She said, 'Jason, I have an eerie feeling. We are letting this guy go, and he is supposed to be police escorted out," he said.

"He has made comments he wants to shoot up the place, and I said, 'Well, you can take my gun and put it in your purse, and if nothing happens at least you will be a safe," he said.

Husband of Virginia Beach mass shooting victim wants open investigation

Battling extreme loss and learning how to live as a recent widower, one Virginia Beach man is looking for answers to what led up to the mass shooting that killed his wife.
www.wtvr.com www.wtvr.com
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