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Cowards

Bloodknight

Elite
Founding Member
Just me talkin.don't go nuts on me.Seen this before,years ago.You just never know until the time comes.Be careful who you put on your 6.I see these news videos from the school shooting where so many were killed.You got all these guys armed to the teeth with all this tactical gear to the 9s.Looks like Bagdad during the war,but nobody goes in.For how long ?
cowards.jpg
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
Reports have said at least one LEO wanted to go in but was restrained & disarmed on orders from the incident commander on site. I imagine others that were out in the hall would have gone in but stuck to orders.

I can't imagine the frustration of the LEOs on site that were outside in the hall with an unlocked door to the room, and waited while hearing the gunfire & other noises inside for many minutes.
 

10mmLife

Moderator
Staff member
Founding Member
Reports have said at least one LEO wanted to go in but was restrained & disarmed on orders from the incident commander on site. I imagine others that were out in the hall would have gone in but stuck to orders.

I can't imagine the frustration of the LEOs on site that were outside in the hall with an unlocked door to the room, and waited while hearing the gunfire & other noises inside for many minutes.
The officer that was restrained was alleged to have had his weapon stripped from him and put in cuffs. The reports I read state that this particular officer got a call from his wife who was one of the teachers reporting to him that she had been shot and was bleeding out. His wife later died being transported to the hospital.

What a sad time....😔
 

Area52

Elite
My rant:

There’s a thing called “tombstone courage”. There’s also “you can’t save others until you save yourself”. The media visual and printed perception is deceiving.

Look to bad management that comes from mandates? SHTF and the bad managing of assets interferes. Book smarts is often practiced and almost never applied in real time. Book smart theorists are the basic armchair quarterbacks and often the ones in charge. Too sharp to ever be out applying the science but can sure pass an exam.

There are many reasons why tactical decisions are not publicized and shouldn’t be.
The optics are never good, it’s why MSM exists.

But I do agree however, that likely someone high up, politically and/or departmentally is more responsible for the incident fiasco than the very first responders.

There is a national school violence protocol that was DOJ developed and implemented decades ago, refined here and there over the years. Of course Not every situation or venue is the same, it seems the basic fundamental protocol was followed until overruled by indecision, and the passing or handing off of the responsibility that took longer than in what should have been immediate rather than a practical by-the-book response. Too many chiefs, memos, advisories, and of course disparaging Media comes to mind.

Ultimately the incident is under command of the on-scene responder until relieved by a higher up. That principle goes in all forms of trades/professions too. This incident unfolded faster than the commands arrival in my opinion. There’s absolutely NO way of telling if matters could have be better or worse, whether it called for an exigent deviation to protocols or calculated stand down.

Avoid protocol and enter with ’tombstone courage’ and maybe you win, maybe you won’t but somebody will be ultimately responsible and the reward will either be just summary discipline or grave.

As observers we should not decide and judge the response based on hearsay.
Its not known what the full details entailed, as to number of assailants, any indoor/outdoors ambush threats, explosives or booby traps, etc., did the local PD train for such and to what level and with what resources, if not why and if there were any tactical manpower shortages for any sort of emergency action planning.

One thing comes to mind is name the individual that initially left the door open and where they cowered in wait - after the familiar former student nut was allowed to initially enter. An absolute unknown and not subject to the same level defamation?

Blame or even castigation should not be solely on the men and women awaiting their orders. Be assured nobody went home feeling fine after this tragedy and some will always be haunted and reminded for the rest of their lives, second guessing on their own. May God bless and watch over them.

We were not there….the optics and banter are deceiving.
 

HansGruber

Hellcat
Just me talkin.don't go nuts on me.Seen this before,years ago.You just never know until the time comes.Be careful who you put on your 6.I see these news videos from the school shooting where so many were killed.You got all these guys armed to the teeth with all this tactical gear to the 9s.Looks like Bagdad during the war,but nobody goes in.For how long ?View attachment 28356

Just me talking. Don’t go nuts…

But people who like to talk big about this stuff are rarely willing to actually do it, in my experience.
 

Talyn

Ronin
Founding Member
The BorTac unit went right in (and a BorTac agent took a round) once they got there after the local LE unit hung out in the hall way for an hour.

 
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Bloodknight

Elite
Founding Member
I think my opinions and emotions have worn out their welcome here. God bless the warriors .Always on your 6.I always think( even at my advanced age) Do Or Do not, There is no try. Until Valhala ........Bye now
 

DKH63

Alpha
I'm no conspiracy theorist but I keep hearing on some talk radio shows that have callers saying the FBI told them to stand down until they arrived. WTF?
I'm glad the Border agent didn't get that message and handled the problem. From what I have seen they were too busy keeping mothers and fathers from getting into the school. The one officer they detained to keep him from going in to save his wife who died was BS too.
 

HansGruber

Hellcat
I'm no conspiracy theorist but I keep hearing on some talk radio shows that have callers saying the FBI told them to stand down until they arrived. WTF?
I'm glad the Border agent didn't get that message and handled the problem. From what I have seen they were too busy keeping mothers and fathers from getting into the school. The one officer they detained to keep him from going in to save his wife who died was BS too.
So, you’re no conspiracy theorist, but you’re promoting conspiracy theories.

Gotcha.
 
There are so many outrageous statements being made about this and other incidents that I take it all with a grain of salt. I have been on many critical incident scenes and when seeing the news reports the following day did not recognize it.

Strong leadership is the key in these incidents, in terms of training, policy, and tactical leadership. I will withhold judgment until all the investigation and reports are in.
 

Sld1959

Professional
Yeah let's hold off judgement until we know "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say.

How often in the past have we criticized news reports for what they, ignored, added, changed or any number of inaccuracies they report intentionally or unintentionally.
 

DKH63

Alpha
So, you’re no conspiracy theorist, but you’re promoting conspiracy theories.

Gotcha.
No. I am just merely stating what I heard. How is repeating things I've heard promoting anything. Did you miss the part where I said people calling into radio talks shows are the ones saying this? I never said it was true.
As far as the news I really don't watch it but I do believe what the parents of those dead children have been saying about them being told they can't enter the school and the officer who's wife was dying and they detained him to keep him from entering the school since it's actually on video.
I'm just glad the one Border Agent did the job that others should've done before he even arrived on the scene.
 
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