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DA/SA vs SAO

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HansGruber said:
Load tube (magazine).

Hit button on the side of the receiver to put shell on lifter.

Rack bolt.
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So does the M4 have a button on the side of the receiver besides the bolt release ?

I guess having never owned a Benelli I never paid any attention to it. The TS-12 has a button on the side of the receiver for the lifter too. The good thing is it's a non issue after the initial load because reloading you're definitely dropping one in the receiver and the bolt is already locked open.
 
Bassbob said:
So does the M4 have a button on the side of the receiver besides the bolt release ?

I guess having never owned a Benelli I never paid any attention to it. The TS-12 has a button on the side of the receiver for the lifter too. The good thing is it's a non issue after the initial load because reloading you're definitely dropping one in the receiver and the bolt is already locked open.
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If the bolt is open, it closes the bolt.

If the bolt is closed, the button puts a shell on the lifter.

This is why in early M1’s, you can “ghost load” an extra round….you load the mag tube to full capacity; retract the bolt back far enough to insert a shell, but not lock back; put a shell on the lifter and push it down, then put a shell in the chamber and let the bolt go forward.

It makes for an insanely fast second shot; using slugs or magnum loads, I have bump-fired a controlled pair with a timed split of .08; this is basically going cyclic.
 
HansGruber said:
If the bolt is open, it closes the bolt.

If the bolt is closed, the button puts a shell on the lifter.

This is why in early M1’s, you can “ghost load” an extra round….you load the mag tube to full capacity; retract the bolt back far enough to insert a shell, but not lock back; put a shell on the lifter and push it down, then put a shell in the chamber and let the bolt go forward.

It makes for an insanely fast second shot; using slugs or magnum loads, I have bump-fired a controlled pair with a timed split of .08; this is basically going cyclic.
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You ghost load the 1301 similarly. Mine has 9 in it currently.

It would be better if the bolt release on the 1301 worked that way.
 
ECS686 said:
While a 1911 is a pretty good fighting handgun (as in your thwre to fight) The best kept secret in defensive carry guns and for LE where you take prisoners is simply the HK LEM system
LEM’s are as easy as a striker to shoot but as safe as a hammer fired. What gets shokters in trouble is lengthy of pull not weight. It’s got no weight til the wall just a king DA length pull and it breach’s better than a striker
Resets like a SAO with hammer cocked and a short reset then let off trigger hammer decocker its self

You can also stage it like a Da revolver (which is better than a striker) for say a 50 yard shot if that’s your thing.
I have 2 as of last night. A HK45 LEM and I just picked up a HK P30L LEM to use as my next duty gun.

They allow you to be deliberate but in the age of the go fast gotta have .20 split times some don’t think hammer fired is cool enough!
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Not a fan of the LEM trigger. Might have its purpose with LEO, but I suspect a ridiculously small number of LEO carry HKs with a LEM trigger - outside of Germany. That being said, I really like the trigger in the P99AS that is DA/SA with a decocker and the Anti-Stress (AS) function that is effectively a LEM trigger. What I like even more is by pulling the slide back about 5mm you put the gun I to Single Action. It’s like the best of both worlds. I suspect as more young shooters join the 2A community that DA/SA will eventually become very rare.
 
SimonRL said:
Not a fan of the LEM trigger. Might have its purpose with LEO, but I suspect a ridiculously small number of LEO carry HKs with a LEM trigger - outside of Germany. That being said, I really like the trigger in the P99AS that is DA/SA with a decocker and the Anti-Stress (AS) function that is effectively a LEM trigger. What I like even more is by pulling the slide back about 5mm you put the gun I to Single Action. It’s like the best of both worlds. I suspect as more young shooters join the 2A community that DA/SA will eventually become very rare.
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I know Maine State Police run HK45 LEM and a couple others (at one time Darryl Bolke area in California ran LEMs in USP’s ) but yeah they are not as popular as they should be.

The thing with a HK LEM. If you shoot just one or two mag through it you will be like EEH but shoot 59-100 rounds and run a coulle say IDPA stages then you (most folks) are like WOW and it shines for them.

I know the USBP and Customs loved their P2000 LEMs and it was a great gun for the novice DEI hires to the SWAT guys

But that P99 is a great option too
 
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