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Data on distance of shootings in LEO shootings

HayesGreener said:
My training and experience has taught me that if something goes wrong with a QUALITY, WELL MAINTAINED semi auto handgun, it is most likely due to faulty ammunition, or faulty magazine, or operator error. I carry two spare magazines because that is how I was trained. Not because I am likely to need to shoot that much, but to get back in the fight if I have a failure with the magazine or ammo that's in the gun. Think of malfunction clearance procedures. If tap, rack, bang and slide manipulation doesn't get you going again, dump the magazine, reload a new magazine, and start over. Absent a reload on your belt, you are reduced to a 2 pound club. I would also invite you to consider that after you have dealt with an aggressor, he might have confederates on the sidelines who you have to deal with next. We just don't know what the future will bring.
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I will add one thjng I have observed and Daryl Bolke (who has been in several shootings if his own and investigated several of his own agency) and John Hearn had mentioned it in depth whem we talked (of you don’t know who Daryl Bolke and John Hearne are they are pretty relevant in the teainjng industry so it’s more than a coulke random guys talking about what they heard)

Another issue is poor grip. In a large number of the stoppages in LEO shootings is whem they are surprised shootings where the Officer is startled (rightly so) and doesn't get a great grip on the handgun this has been recorded in video as well as officers testimony.

There are other issues we could go into but just a quick add

And as far as weapons being serviceable that can play a huge part and an example that I sort of chuckle at is as the whole a lot in the industry (usually guntubers that have never been in or interviewed anyone in a use of force situation) down on 1911’s while they won’t get through a 1,000 round 2 day class without maybe cleaning like a Glock can without if it’s in proper order it shouldn’t have an issue getting through say three 8 round mags without issue
 
ECS686 said:
I will add one thjng I have observed and Daryl Bolke (who has been in several shootings if his own and investigated several of his own agency) and John Hearn had mentioned it in depth whem we talked (of you don’t know who Daryl Bolke and John Hearne are they are pretty relevant in the teainjng industry so it’s more than a coulke random guys talking about what they heard)

Another issue is poor grip. In a large number of the stoppages in LEO shootings is whem they are surprised shootings where the Officer is startled (rightly so) and doesn't get a great grip on the handgun this has been recorded in video as well as officers testimony.

There are other issues we could go into but just a quick add

And as far as weapons being serviceable that can play a huge part and an example that I sort of chuckle at is as the whole a lot in the industry (usually guntubers that have never been in or interviewed anyone in a use of force situation) down on 1911’s while they won’t get through a 1,000 round 2 day class without maybe cleaning like a Glock can without if it’s in proper order it shouldn’t have an issue getting through say three 8 round mags without issue
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I tested my ‘91 Sig 228 after a couple years of use by going 5000 rounds before a cleaning. No issues ever in that 5000 rounds. Finally cleaned it because I was getting dirty as hell handling it. I was shooting 2k rounds a month then.
 
Biggfoot44 said:
Can l point out the obvious ?

The distances cited in first post , were the distances where Ofc were * Killed * . Not distances where Ofc prevailed , or where situation resolved without fatality .
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I believe the point of the data is the shootings (no matter who prevailed) started close in.

The connection between LE and private citizen shoktings is Cops have to be close to suspects to interview/investigate and arrest them and Private Citizen the bad guy has to be close to Rob/harm or in the case of women sexually assault them!
 
Have any of you seen any of the videos of gangbangers appendix carrying an AR pistol. With the baggy sweat pants and the “walk” it’s hard to tell they have an AR down their sweats. He has 30 rds and I don’t want to depend on 6 rds. And you don’t know if he has a door gunners on your 6. These days just about anything is possible and if someone wants to carry a J frame ok, if they want to carry a 5.7 pistol with extra mags that’s ok. I carry a HellCat and one extra mag and 2-3 knives. I just don’t understand why it bothers anyone with what I or anyone else carries.
 
Our agency just did CQB/room entry training. Blue guns, no projectiles at all, not even sims. Just basic, 101 training.

They would training a scenario then we would practice it. It was amazing how often someone would want to immediately close the gap to secure a knife or gun from the bad guy.


As fat as carying a revlover...I would rather someoen carry a 5-6 shot revolver then not carry

But I am carrying as many rounds as possible.

They way I see it is sure, you're likely to need 1 or 2 IF you need to shoot.

However, you're most likely NEVER going to use your gun in self-defense, yet you still carry. So it you are stacking the odds in your favor for somethign that will probably never happen, why not go step further and increase those odds? And, you're only preparing for a 1 on 1 situation like a robbery? What about a terror attack, mass shooter, multiple attackers? They are less likely to happen, but COULD happen
 
PAGunGuy said:
Our agency just did CQB/room entry training. Blue guns, no projectiles at all, not even sims. Just basic, 101 training.

They would training a scenario then we would practice it. It was amazing how often someone would want to immediately close the gap to secure a knife or gun from the bad guy.


As fat as carying a revlover...I would rather someoen carry a 5-6 shot revolver then not carry

But I am carrying as many rounds as possible.

They way I see it is sure, you're likely to need 1 or 2 IF you need to shoot.

However, you're most likely NEVER going to use your gun in self-defense, yet you still carry. So it you are stacking the odds in your favor for somethign that will probably never happen, why not go step further and increase those odds? And, you're only preparing for a 1 on 1 situation like a robbery? What about a terror attack, mass shooter, multiple attackers? They are less likely to happen, but COULD happen
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H Gnoimd a step future???? Weight, conbieniance and knowing your own role. I can tell you as I approach 60 years old the amount of peolme I will go out in a limb for where I risk death/bodily injury and or court/fines/jail and prison js relatively small.

That said I wouldn’t say anyone is wrong if they choose a 17 round Sig Macro vs a wheelgun. But those folks argue they are more right. I am not wrong with running a wheelgun as that snub lifestyle and the comfort convenience mentioned above is a thing

But justifying it through misguided concerned is off and that’s what some are saying. It’s just some arguments get….well misguided. I mean we could get stuck by lighting but don’t worry about lightning rods every time it rains.

With Active shooters (the Maine point brought up) there has only been 5 in Ed Monk stats. (3 schools and 2 outside to include the married couple in California that became a manhunt in short order and ended in a Bonnie and Clyde shootout) Outside of gang land wage fare the whole active shooter issue gets a lot of press but that’s a minuscule of issues. We have had many many more lone crazy’s with knives or bats etc attacking
 
Sort of funny timing Matt Landfair just posted this from a couple years ago on his Primary Secondary page. And since the Pelvic girdle keeps getting mentioned here and everywjere by folks that probably either don’t know or base it in that one time at band camp it worked (or in the Military with say rifles and stuff) is an excellent discussion from people who actually know it’s not a great Plan B.

I have trained with Hearne, Bolke, Eastridge, Haggard and Weems woth 4 of the 5 stay at my house when I host

I have also AI’d for Hearne with his Cognitive handgun with Tactical Anatomy course all of them bring a wealth of knowledge and are all gems in the training world

Well worth the time to
Listen

 
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