testtest

Definitive Answer on 45ACP Primer Size

J

johnnyreloader

Alpha
Well maybe, sort of, possibly.

Test pistol Ruger SR1911, 5" barrel.
230gr Xtreme RN, COL 1.235".
CFE Pistol powder, 6.4grs.
At conclusion of test, decided this charge was too light.
ES and SD were way too high, plan to rerun test at 6.8grs.
20 shot strings, measured 15' from muzzle, mid 80's, 3000% Alabama humidity.

CCI 500 Small Pistol primer
Avg. 831fps, ES 61, SD 18

CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum primer
Avg. 862, ES 57, SD 15.4

CCI 300 Large Pistol primer
Avg. 851, ES 52, SD 12.3

CCI 350 Large Pistol Magnum primer
Avg. 903, ES 43, SD 13.0

So primer size and standard/magnum does indeed make a difference.
Interestingly, this data mirrors results in similar test I ran years ago with WSF powder.
 
Lucky for me I've only used half of the 1000 new GBW cases I bought from MidSouth 2 years ago. I don't see a lot of reason to use it all up as I'm just plinking. It's all LP, so I think I can avoid the SP issue for some time. And since the majority of what I shoot is 380ACP and 9mm, my 45 brass ought to stay good for quite some time.
 
So far, Federal small pistol primer cases in 45 ACP have been an annoyance and nothing more. I even stopped buying their factory loads. Those boxes are not marked as to which primer is used. I bought a box of fifty a few years back to just take to the range, and when I went to process them for reloading, you can imagine my surprise. I just don't buy them. I can buy plenty of Starline brass and reload to my hearts content. If I'm not mistaken, they (Federal) are the only manufacturer that does this. I haven't been able to get a straight answer as to why this is so. One reason I heard was the folks that shoot "3 gun". The AR's, 40's, and 9's all use small primers, and reloading is a simpler task when doing so many rounds. Sounds reasonable. Then there was the story of the primer mixture being "environmentally friendly". Whatever. This cartridge was designed with the large pistol primer from the beginning, and it has carried on this way quite nicely for better than a century. If it ain't broke, don't "fix it". If I find one in any brass that I happen to pick up at the range, it goes right into my "Junk Brass Can".

Regards,
Bill

Just a quick edit. I checked Midways' site, apparently the Federal 45 ACP brass available for reloading is large pistol. Perhaps it's just their factory loads that are primed small pistol.
 
Last edited:
RangerBill said:
So far, Federal small pistol primer cases in 45 ACP have been an annoyance and nothing more. I even stopped buying their factory loads. Those boxes are not marked as to which primer is used. I bought a box of fifty a few years back to just take to the range, and when I went to process them for reloading, you can imagine my surprise. I just don't buy them. I can buy plenty of Starline brass and reload to my hearts content. If I'm not mistaken, they (Federal) are the only manufacturer that does this. I haven't been able to get a straight answer as to why this is so. One reason I heard was the folks that shoot "3 gun". The AR's, 40's, and 9's all use small primers, and reloading is a simpler task when doing so many rounds. Sounds reasonable. Then there was the story of the primer mixture being "environmentally friendly". Whatever. This cartridge was designed with the large pistol primer from the beginning, and it has carried on this way quite nicely for better than a century. If it ain't broke, don't "fix it". If I find one in any brass that I happen to pick up at the range, it goes right into my "Junk Brass Can".

Regards,
Bill

Just a quick edit. I checked Midways' site, apparently the Federal 45 ACP brass available for reloading is large pistol. Perhaps it's just their factory loads that are primed small pistol.
Click to expand...
I have gotten small and large primers mixed in same box of Federal ammo. Blazer is almost exclusively small primer in their 45 auto ammo. Now, Blazer is making 10mm with small primers. What's next, 44 magnum SP?
 
I have been reloading for over 50 years, no brag, just fact. I rarely buy factory loads these days, maybe to run something in a new gun that I don't have dies for yet. I purchased some Blazer factory loads in 357 Mag over thirty years ago, and the primers were getting pierced in my M28 S&W, so much so that the cylinder was locked up. Last time for that brand. It's been "Roll your owns'" for everything I own. I read so much about every ones' experiences with factory stuff that I'm quite content to keep busy at the bench. As for your efforts at figuring out loads for 45 ACP with SP primers, good on ya'! I just can't get into that one.

Incidentally, early last year there was a dust up over pierced primers in Bergara 6.5 Creedmoors. One internet forum was saying it was a warranty issue with the rifles. Since I had just purchased one, I called Bergara. It was explained to me that yes, there were incidents of pierced primers. Some folks had been loading brass with small rifle primers, and the Bergara rep stated that they have robust firing pins and springs in their rifles, and they will pierce those primers. (I had noticed Starline offers 6.5 CM hulls with small primer pockets). He also stated that the Creedmoor was designed with the large rifle primer. These were likely "Palma Match" cases, which use, per match rules, small rifle primers. And an appropriately built rifle. As I stated, I'll stick to the primers that the cartridge was originally designed to use.

Regards,
Bill
 
Ok, this may be a dumb question......when did they switch the primers....I haven’t reloaded in 20 years. I loaded for this back then for one of my Colt Gold Cup’s.
 
Last edited:
As a reloading instructor, I can't help but make one more point. I often make comparisons of cartridge cases to my students, kind of a way to help them understand where case designs come from, and why. Let us compare the relative ages of the 45 Government cartridge and the beloved 30-'06. Now, take a look at the head and rim dimensions. John Browning designed not only the 45 Auto Pistol, but the cartridge it shoots as well. It was normal then to standardize production to any degree possible. Imagine the millions of rounds of ammunition that came out of the arsenals during both "The Great War" and WW II. Having tooling as similar as possible to manufacture ammunition for the various US rifles and pistols used in these wars was essential. The '06 served in both wars, as did the 45. Springfields, Garands, and the various 1911's manufactured during these conflicts ate enormous amounts of ammunition. And they did it all with a large primer, either Rifle or Pistol. They were not going to confuse matters with two different primer sizes.

During the development of the Garand, in the 1930's, at first the Ordnance Board wanted John Garand to chamber his rifle in the .276" caliber cartridge that was favored by Peterson. They thought better of that, fortunately. Better to stay with the "Tried and True".

Regards,
Bill
 
Agree that the small primer in a 45ACP must have a larger charge of powder. I load my competition LP 45ACP's with 4.1 grains of Bullseye Powder under a 200 grain semi or full wadcutter bullet. Using that same load with a standard small primer will barely recycle the slide. I have to up the charge to 4.6 grains to have it react like the LP.
 
RangerBill said:
So far, Federal small pistol primer cases in 45 ACP have been an annoyance and nothing more. I even stopped buying their factory loads. Those boxes are not marked as to which primer is used. I bought a box of fifty a few years back to just take to the range, and when I went to process them for reloading, you can imagine my surprise. I just don't buy them. I can buy plenty of Starline brass and reload to my hearts content. If I'm not mistaken, they (Federal) are the only manufacturer that does this. I haven't been able to get a straight answer as to why this is so. One reason I heard was the folks that shoot "3 gun". The AR's, 40's, and 9's all use small primers, and reloading is a simpler task when doing so many rounds. Sounds reasonable. Then there was the story of the primer mixture being "environmentally friendly". Whatever. This cartridge was designed with the large pistol primer from the beginning, and it has carried on this way quite nicely for better than a century. If it ain't broke, don't "fix it". If I find one in any brass that I happen to pick up at the range, it goes right into my "Junk Brass Can".

Regards,
Bill

Just a quick edit. I checked Midways' site, apparently the Federal 45 ACP brass available for reloading is large pistol. Perhaps it's just their factory loads that are primed small pistol.
Click to expand...
Actually I’m glad that federal made 45 acp with small primers because all I can find now (October 2022) is small primers and I have a bucket full of 45 acp brass that takes small primers.I also have the same primers to load my 9mm with.I’m one happy camper.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top