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- Thread starter Ernie1972
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WellArmed
Custom
To play devil's advocate, I've never heard of optics from reputable manufacturers failing during a defensives or offensive situation either. Many law enforcement officers, SWAT, special forces, and the like utilize optics, lasers, and other electronic devices on their handguns and rifles.
It's odd that most have no issues with optics on rifles, which are typically use the same technology and are manufactured by the same companies. Yet, when the topic comes up about using optics on handguns, there's a lot of push back and unsubstantiated fear mongering.
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WellArmed
Custom
I've heard of handgun irons falling off the gun. I've personally had the dots fall out of my 3-dot sights. I know of several people who have sheared off or really banged up their Glock sights. I've known of people whose iron pistol sights moved slightly and ruined their zero. There are fiber optic sights that break. Night sights that die. So on and so forth. Likewise, there have been rare but real cases where optics malfunctioned that I know of.
The thing is, these issues tend to always reveal themselves WELL before you put the gun in the holster and walk out the door. It's along the same lines as we all carry guns from trusted manufacturers. We all know that even trusted manufacturers produce some lemons. That's why we take our guns to the range as well as keep a maintenance regimen in order to avoid, find, and fix these issues before we're out in the field. The same holds true when it comes to utilizing optics on pistols and rifles.
The chances of your reputable pistol optic that is well maintained and has been tried and tested suddenly failing out of nowhere while trying to get through the 10-15 rounds in a mag aren't very probable. Just like it isn't very probable that a well-maintained and tested Glock, for example, will suddenly, without any prior indications or warning, poop the bed in a gunfight involving only ~15 or so rounds, it is also very unlikely.
The thing is, these issues tend to always reveal themselves WELL before you put the gun in the holster and walk out the door. It's along the same lines as we all carry guns from trusted manufacturers. We all know that even trusted manufacturers produce some lemons. That's why we take our guns to the range as well as keep a maintenance regimen in order to avoid, find, and fix these issues before we're out in the field. The same holds true when it comes to utilizing optics on pistols and rifles.
The chances of your reputable pistol optic that is well maintained and has been tried and tested suddenly failing out of nowhere while trying to get through the 10-15 rounds in a mag aren't very probable. Just like it isn't very probable that a well-maintained and tested Glock, for example, will suddenly, without any prior indications or warning, poop the bed in a gunfight involving only ~15 or so rounds, it is also very unlikely.
Lock n' Load
Professional
How an optic, laser, or irons look on any pistol doesn't matter. What matters is how accurately, effectively, and safely you can operate the pistol. Just my opinion. YMMV
Johnny Yuma
Elite
I have several hammers, plyers, and any many wrenches.
So nothing looks sexy or nice, they are tools that do a job, nothing more.
Same with the big steel tool box in the closet.
So nothing looks sexy or nice, they are tools that do a job, nothing more.
Same with the big steel tool box in the closet.
I started quail hunting with my Dad when I was 7 (using a single shot, .177 pellet rifle). I was taught how to safely handle a gun during two years (‘course I never hit a quail with it, but that wasn’t the point. When I was 9 (and Dad was satisfied that I knew how to act in the field) I got a 37 Winchester .410 for Christmas. Dad about wore out his arm throwing clay birds with a hand trap teaching me the art of wing shooting. I am forever grateful for having a loving, caring Dad who cared enough to teach me things a man needs to know.
At close range it won't matter. You don't look at the dot, you look at the target and put the dot on it. As long as you see red on the target where you intend to shoot, you're fine.
HansGruber
SAINT
Yeah, because how a defensive pistol looks will affect how it performs.
Good f’in grief.
Good f’in grief.
Lab4Us
Custom
My reaction would be to put the optic glass window on the bad guy a bit higher than center mass and engage (if I for sure assessed it as a legal lethal self defense situation).
TBH, if I did assess it as a legal lethal self defense situation, I’d probably point and pull the trigger long before my eyes got anywhere near any type of sight, optic or iron.
Full disclosure, for me, a legal lethal self defense situation would be to protect my, and my family’s, lives. I don’t intend to take any 50 yard shots across a mall parking lot with a pistol.
Greenwood Park Mall shooting - Wikipedia
Not advocating one way or the other (especially with two misses in a crowded mall food court), but it's not outside the realm of possibility depending on your personal convictions on why you carry and who you're willing to protect.
I'm not going to judge someone's personal decisions on that spectrum either way - it can go from "if you're not carrying, you're not being responsible for your own safety so I'm not helping you" to "I'm one of a single-digit percent of folks likely to be able to stop this now, and I will," with "should I or shouldn't I? What if someone else thinks I'm the bad guy?"
Lots of things to think about in a time where thought will be a precious resource. Each person should make up their mind before hand.
HansGruber
SAINT
Lab4Us
Custom
I am aware of that incident and know it’s quite possible. But I am not Batman and I feel no urge to be Gotham’s vigilante…and like you, believe any engagement by civilians who carry is a personal decision.Greenwood Park Mall shooting - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Not advocating one way or the other (especially with two misses in a crowded mall food court), but it's not outside the realm of possibility depending on your personal convictions on why you carry and who you're willing to protect.
I'm not going to judge someone's personal decisions on that spectrum either way - it can go from "if you're not carrying, you're not being responsible for your own safety so I'm not helping you" to "I'm one of a single-digit percent of folks likely to be able to stop this now, and I will," with "should I or shouldn't I? What if someone else thinks I'm the bad guy?"
Lots of things to think about in a time where thought will be a precious resource. Each person should make up their mind before hand.
Why? If you train to draw your gun (irons or optics) to where you're looking, you'll do this under stress with enough training repetition.
Why risk a miss, especially not knowing what's behind the assailant?
Lab4Us
Custom
I also train to point shoot. There is no guarantee you’ll get those seconds to aim…
HansGruber
SAINT
It’s called firing from retention, or firing from 1/2 or 1/4 hip.
Very useful at halitosis range.
I can, and do, hit clays from a draw at contact to 15 feet without seeing the sights, or even the pistol going much above my navel.
You may want to look into “threat focused shooting techniques”.
If you're drawing to point of aim there are no seconds involved.
Annihilator
Hellion
I just drop my Sig P320, it takes care of the rest……sorry couldn’t resist….