Ever seen this? Possible cause? .22 LR failure

[Blackmesa96]

Shooting my Walther Colt 1911 .22LR. Last round out of magazine, case split directly above the rim and squib resulted. Armscor, I believe.

My first thought was a failure of the brass, but on further consideration I wonder if the round wasn't fully seated in the chamber. I could see a cockeyed bullet keeping the round from fully seating in the chamber but it would seem to me to be more likely that such an event would lead to a failure to fire. Inspection of the squib projectile doesn't seem to have any indication that the bullet had been knocked off center and found its' way back into the supply (although that could be the case), but I would think that it would have been noticed when I loaded the magazine.

Everyone who saw this all said it's a first for them. Anyone here ever see this sort of thing before?

Pistol probably has 1000-1500 rounds through it. I keep it clean and lubricated. This was round #10 for this session. No issues with the magazines before, all have fed flawlessly. For that matter, the gun has always run everything it has been fed with no failures of any sort that I recall prior to this.

Your input is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Annihilator]

The disconnector would have prevented the round from going off unless the gun was fully into battery, possibly a bad round….. I never seen this in a .22 before, interesting…..

 

[Grayfox]

With the squib, could it be possible that the slide started moving before the pressure dropped resulting in a blown out case?

 

[shanneba]

The disconnector would prevent the trigger from releasing the hammer.

Did you actually pull the trigger or did the round fire loading from the magazine?
Was the previous round normal report and recoil wise?

If the firing pin spring failed or the firing pin was stuck forward the gun could fire as the round is feeding into the chamber.

I would also look at the barrel, make sure it is tight in the sleeve and the barrel nut has not worked loose.
Also inspect the interior of the barrel to see if there is any appearance of a bulge.

Link to Manual-
Walther Colt 1911 Semiautomatic pistol Cal. .22 L.R.

 

[Old_Me]

Shooting my Walther Colt 1911 .22LR. Last round out of magazine, case split directly above the rim and squib resulted. Armscor, I believe.

My first thought was a failure of the brass, but on further consideration I wonder if the round wasn't fully seated in the chamber. I could see a cockeyed bullet keeping the round from fully seating in the chamber but it would seem to me to be more likely that such an event would lead to a failure to fire. Inspection of the squib projectile doesn't seem to have any indication that the bullet had been knocked off center and found its' way back into the supply (although that could be the case), but I would think that it would have been noticed when I loaded the magazine.

Everyone who saw this all said it's a first for them. Anyone here ever see this sort of thing before?

Pistol probably has 1000-1500 rounds through it. I keep it clean and lubricated. This was round #10 for this session. No issues with the magazines before, all have fed flawlessly. For that matter, the gun has always run everything it has been fed with no failures of any sort that I recall prior to this.

Your input is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
View attachment 43403View attachment 43404

since you mentioned Armscor, a buddy of mine at the range was using Armscor as well....

first time, he blew out the magazine to the floor and totally destroyed the magazine.

second time, (on another day) another Armscor 22 lr, blew out from the chamber and blew out THAT magazine, and locked his slide back. took some "hammering" to get it back to working.

i even months ago, posted issues with Armscor .22 lr's here......

i had been using Armscor 45 ACP, with no issues...

i suspect the ammo being defective since now you are the 2nd person to have used Armscor .22 lr

i highly suggest staying away from Armscor .22 lr ammo......

 

[Mr.W.]

I'm of course not positive, but I suspect faulty ammunition. True or not, I've heard some less than flattering tales about Armscor ammunition.

 

[nmedge]

Probably faulty ammo. I also have had issues with Armscor 22lr.

 

[10mmLife]

The way the edge of the rim is crushed it appears the the firing pin never even made contact with the case. The most likely scenario is that you had a double feed where a loose round ended up outside the magazine and partially into the chamber in a way that some part of the slide crushed the rim setting the round off prematurely out of battery.

I shoot 10's of thousands 22lr rounds a year and though this has never happened to me I have seen crushed or dented cases more than a few times caused by double feeds in different firearms.

 

[Bassbob]

Armscor is notoriously garbage.

 

[Blackmesa96]

The way the edge of the rim is crushed it appears the the firing pin never even made contact with the case. The most likely scenario is that you had a double feed where a loose round ended up outside the magazine and partially into the chamber in a way that some part of the slide crushed the rim setting the round off prematurely out of battery.

I shoot 10's of thousands 22lr rounds a year and though this has never happened to me I have seen crushed or dented cases more than a few times caused by double feeds in different firearms.

Previous round had discharged and ejected, no evidence to indicate a double feed. Wasn't doing any sort of rapid firing. This event happened when the trigger was pulled on this round.

 

[Old_Me]

Previous round had discharged and ejected, no evidence to indicate a double feed. Wasn't doing any sort of rapid firing. This event happened when the trigger was pulled on this round.

bad ammo.

do not use of buy Armscor again..???

i use Federal, CCI, Aguila, no issues at all.

like i also said, i use Armscor 45 ACP, and that has given me 100% satisfaction thus far.

 

[10mmLife]

Previous round had discharged and ejected, no evidence to indicate a double feed. Wasn't doing any sort of rapid firing. This event happened when the trigger was pulled on this round.

The direction of the firing pin striking the edge of the shell as shown in your picture does not appear to be struck like any .22lr shell I've ever seen. This appears to be a round that was fired out of battery as the case could not rupture to the extent it did while seated in the chamber without having a catastrophic failure. It's easy to blame the ammo but I would also look into the firearm for signs of failure on the extractor or other parts. A round fired out of battery would not have enough energy to force it through the barrel so the end result could be the projectile lodged in the barrel.

If you have snap caps you could dry engaging the firing pin while holding the slide slightly open to see if the pistol is capable of firing out of battery.

Out of spec ammo could still play a role in not allowing the round to fully chamber and helping to create this type of failure.

 

[Blackmesa96]

The direction of the firing pin striking the edge of the shell as shown in your picture does not appear to be struck like any .22lr shell I've ever seen. This appears to be a round that was fired out of battery as the case could not rupture to the extent it did while seated in the chamber without having a catastrophic failure. It's easy to blame the ammo but I would also look into the firearm for signs of failure on the extractor or other parts. A round fired out of battery would not have enough energy to force it through the barrel so the end result could be the projectile lodged in the barrel.

If you have snap caps you could dry engaging the firing pin while holding the slide slightly open to see if the pistol is capable of firing out of battery.

Out of spec ammo could still play a role in not allowing the round to fully chamber and helping to create this type of failure.


View attachment 43410

Thanks. While I first thought to blame the ammo, I was thinking that the way the case ruptured was suspect.

Plan is to contact Walther and have them look at the pistol. As the slide didn't cycle, the pressure was contained in the pistol and I want to have someone who knows this gun give it a good look over.

 

[Blackmesa96]

Update for anyone who may be interested.

Walther has had the pistol for two months. They continue to say that they are waiting on a new barrel to come from Germany.

When asked why they can't take a barrel off another pistol or even replace the gun, I was informed that there aren't any out there.

I suggested to the CSR rep that there certainly are pistols in the pipeline and they could certainly get one. The individual then replied "You need to calm down and call back".

I wasn't upset until that moment, and I then informed him that I now was unhappy. He then hung up on me.

Now, that's what I call customer service. No more Walther firearms or Umarex air rifles will be purchased by us. (Guess the PPK is off the wish list now. Ironically, the day this happened I was planning to buy a PPK the LGS had in their store.)

 

[Snake45]

The ruptured case looks almost exactly like the ONE .22LR kB! (ka-BOOM!) I've ever experienced. It was in a DPMS .22LR AR upper. I determined that the gun had fired OOB (it would "go" if the bolt were held back about 1/32" or so, as, I discovered, so will MANY semiauto rifles and handguns!), and the reason for the OOB firing was that this gun has a VERY tight chamber and the round hadn't fully chambered. Not surprisingly, this gun turns out to be extremely accurate and will shoot right up there with my CZ 452 bolt action, my most accurate repeating .22 LR rifle. (I own an Anschutz 64 that will shoot just slightly better. The Annie 64 has THE tightest .22 chamber I own.) My solution to this "problem" is, I now make sure to clean out that chamber every 200 or 300 rounds, and I haven't had another kB! from it since.

OTOH, I've recently read (on RimfireCentral.com) about several other kB!s with Armscor .22LR ammo, so, in your case, who knows?

 

[Old_Me]

Update for anyone who may be interested.

Walther has had the pistol for two months. They continue to say that they are waiting on a new barrel to come from Germany.

When asked why they can't take a barrel off another pistol or even replace the gun, I was informed that there aren't any out there.

I suggested to the CSR rep that there certainly are pistols in the pipeline and they could certainly get one. The individual then replied "You need to calm down and call back".

I wasn't upset until that moment, and I then informed him that I now was unhappy. He then hung up on me.

Now, that's what I call customer service. No more Walther firearms or Umarex air rifles will be purchased by us. (Guess the PPK is off the wish list now. Ironically, the day this happened I was planning to buy a PPK the LGS had in their store.)

i think most times now, young millennials are working in offices doing all sorts of functions. as such they themselves are nothing more than elitists that think they have to be coddled or will start crying. looking for their mommy.

i think that's what you had as far as a customer service agent. someone who cannot handle stress, unless they have a texting device in thier hand and are texting thier friends, rather than to actually do any sort of work.

call back, most likely you will get a different person.

i'd not give up, for the price i paid.

get satisfaction, get the gun back...THEN TELL THEM TO "F" OFF.

in fact, go one step further........contact corporate......

 

[Old_Me]

OTOH, I've recently read (on RimfireCentral.com) about several other kB!s with Armscor .22LR ammo, so, in your case, who knows?

yes, i too have mentioned more than once, a buddy of mine that goes to the public range i go to, has a Rock Island Armory 1911 in 22 magnum, i have the same. (different gun that the op, yes i know, but Armscor .22 ammo)

he uses (or used) Armscor 22 mag ammo, and he has had at least 2 KA-BOOMS, causing his magazine to blow out, once totally destroying it, the other time, just blowing it out.

i will only use Armscor 45 ACP, and never any issue..when i use my 22 mag, i use WMR

 

[Blackmesa96]

In case anyone is curious:

Two and a half months for Walther to have the pistol. Still waiting on parts.

Walther CSR tells me that NOBODY in that organization can give me an ETA or even a tracking update. When I told him that as someone who works in transportation I find that incredibly difficult to believe. I asked to speak with a supervisor and was hung up on.

NEVER, and I do mean NEVER, will I spend another cent with Walther. I will encourage everyone to buy anything but Walther products (and Umarex) in the future.

 

[Old_Me]

In case anyone is curious:

Two and a half months for Walther to have the pistol. Still waiting on parts.

Walther CSR tells me that NOBODY in that organization can give me an ETA or even a tracking update. When I told him that as someone who works in transportation I find that incredibly difficult to believe. I asked to speak with a supervisor and was hung up on.

NEVER, and I do mean NEVER, will I spend another cent with Walther. I will encourage everyone to buy anything but Walther products (and Umarex) in the future.

wow...

kinda reminds me of the time i needed a part for a Canik i once owned.. i had to wait a long time as well.

frankly, i'd not want to buy another gun where someone just blatantly hangs up on me.

 

[Blackmesa96]

wow...

kinda reminds me of the time i needed a part for a Canik i once owned.. i had to wait a long time as well.

frankly, i'd not want to buy another gun where someone just blatantly hangs up on me.

What's the saying, "You pay your money, you take your chances?"

It's frustrating that a Company with offices in the US would be so difficult to get a straight answer from. But, to their credit, each CSR I have dealt with has had a unique interpretation of what they believe they need to tell me to get me off the phone.

When (or if) this pistol comes back it's headed out the door with nary a round put through it. I don't want to deal with it ever again. The PPKs will likely be leaving as well...