Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “F-100 Super Sabre: A Supersonic Coffin?” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/f-100-super-sabre/.
F-100 Super Sabre: A Supersonic Coffin?
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
Snake45
Professional
Good article (as is just about everything Dr. Awesome writes), but was surprised to see no mention of the Misty FAC program, which was just as Big A Deal as the F-100s use as Wild Weasel. An excellent book on Misty FAC is Bury Us Upside Down. It's definitely on Snake's List of Very Most Way Excellent Hella-Cool Vietnam Air War Books.
Talyn
SAINT
I think the F-104 Starfighter best qualifies as a "Supersonic Coffin".
The cumulative loss rate of USAF F-104 Starfighters was 25.2 aircraft lost per 100,000 flight hours. This is the highest accident rate of any of the fighters. By comparison, the cumulative destroyed rates for the other Century Series aircraft in USAF service over the same time period were 16.2 for the North American F-100 Super Sabre, 15.6 for the Republic F-105 Thunderchief, 9.7 for the McDonnell F-101 Voodoo, and 7.3 for the Convair F-106 Delta Dart.
Foreign operators of the F-104 had similar loss rates, especially West Germany.
Lets keep in mind that aircraft losses causes are same as for any aircraft type. These include: bird strikes and other foreign object damage (particularly to the engine), lightning strikes, pilot spatial disorientation, structural failure, and mid-air collisions and other pilot error.
Also, when aircraft are put into use outside what they were originally designed for then operational problems and/or loss rates can increase. That was the case for both the F-100 and F-104.
BTW - Out of 1,110 single-engine AH-1 Huey Cobras built approximately 35% were lost in overall service, by all operators, the majority being combat losses in Vietnam.
My .02
The cumulative loss rate of USAF F-104 Starfighters was 25.2 aircraft lost per 100,000 flight hours. This is the highest accident rate of any of the fighters. By comparison, the cumulative destroyed rates for the other Century Series aircraft in USAF service over the same time period were 16.2 for the North American F-100 Super Sabre, 15.6 for the Republic F-105 Thunderchief, 9.7 for the McDonnell F-101 Voodoo, and 7.3 for the Convair F-106 Delta Dart.
Foreign operators of the F-104 had similar loss rates, especially West Germany.
Lets keep in mind that aircraft losses causes are same as for any aircraft type. These include: bird strikes and other foreign object damage (particularly to the engine), lightning strikes, pilot spatial disorientation, structural failure, and mid-air collisions and other pilot error.
Also, when aircraft are put into use outside what they were originally designed for then operational problems and/or loss rates can increase. That was the case for both the F-100 and F-104.
BTW - Out of 1,110 single-engine AH-1 Huey Cobras built approximately 35% were lost in overall service, by all operators, the majority being combat losses in Vietnam.
My .02
Cedric
Custom
The West German Luftwaffe started hanging all sorts of ordnance on the F-104 to turn it into a multi-role fighter and it promptly became a widow maker. Talk about putting them into use outside of their intended role.
Helicopters in VN suffered horrendous losses (50%). The details from the VN Helicopter Pilots Association are here:
Long story short, this didn't stop the Army from developing aviation as a separate branch touting independent "deep" operations rather than integration with ground ops. As they found out in OIF it was a recipe for disaster despite advances in technology.
Snake45
Professional
You gotta wonder about the brain processes of someone who would look at an airplane obviously designed and built as a point-defense interceptor and think it might make a good low-level mud mover.
Icepick Mike
Operator
Was in RVN in 67 and saw many of these aircraft and A1Es' providing CAS for us. Didn't know they where so dangerous to fly but they did save a lot of troops lives. We where happy to see them when it was needed. There where a lot of F4s' also doing the CAS thing for us.
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Talyn
SAINT
In a past life I worked with a SVN refugee which is a great, hard-working person, and still has relatives back in VN, and still visits them as a US citizen.
I really like Vietnamese food.
Tinyman
Custom
Guess we have an almost identical library -- good on both of us.
Couple of things…back in the day, all aircraft had teething problems. How many WW2 planes went thru the process and how many pilots were lost in non-combat training?
Second…in 1969, the Marine rifle company was ambushed in southern I Corps. Too close for me, the arty FO to call in fire. The aerial ground controller put in a help call and two Huns responded. They made one run, using 20mm and left. Only problem was they came in perpendicular to our lines, over our heads, rather than parallel. When they fired, they sprinkled shell cases over us. Glad they could assist until the Cobras arrived, but wish they had approached on a different azimuth. Cobras and A-4s worked over the tree line, we assaulted, and that was that.
Second…in 1969, the Marine rifle company was ambushed in southern I Corps. Too close for me, the arty FO to call in fire. The aerial ground controller put in a help call and two Huns responded. They made one run, using 20mm and left. Only problem was they came in perpendicular to our lines, over our heads, rather than parallel. When they fired, they sprinkled shell cases over us. Glad they could assist until the Cobras arrived, but wish they had approached on a different azimuth. Cobras and A-4s worked over the tree line, we assaulted, and that was that.