Hello all, here is today's article posted on TheArmoryLife.com. It is titled “First Look: SAINT Victor 5.5″ PDW 9mm” and can be found at https://www.thearmorylife.com/springfield-saint-victor-pdw-9mm/.
First Look: SAINT Victor 5.5″ PDW 9mm
- Thread starter Mike H.
- Start date
MiataMinded
Alpha
I really like the muzzle device on there. Is there anywhere I can purchase it separately?
deadduck357
Professional
The gray looks great 
OldGrunt
Professional
I'll take our black one off your hands so you can get the grey one. No need to thank me, you're welcome.
PieterCoetzee
Professional
PieterCoetzee
Professional
Looks like a pretty common blast deflector google that and see what comes up
UC_Guy 1971
Custom
While I really don't care about this "pistol" per se, can someone who know confirm or deny that the Colt SMG mags are based off of the Browning Hi-power mags? This would make a big difference if I could pair this with my SA-35.
Fingers crossed
Fingers crossed
PieterCoetzee
Professional
Its ALL marketing. Back in the 90s NATO (as in the US) wanted a replacement for handguns to give to NON combat troops. The PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) was supposed to be something that was effective to 200+ meters AND could defeat Soviet plate armor. The idea was a mechanic didnt need a rifle leaning against a tree when they got suddenly attacked but that a pistol wasnt effective. The whole thing got twisted and suddenly Special Ops wanted the new cool guy gun. Originally they had unique cartridges 5.7x28 and 4.6x30; but theres an argument that 30 Carbine might have been the first PDW???
PCC is a civilian term for Pistol caliber carbine (think semi only SMG "look" with typically a 16" barrel)
TODAY its MARKETING and who wants the cool moniker at the club...
PieterCoetzee
Professional
COLT SMG mags are UZI mags with a cut for the AR mag release.While I really don't care about this "pistol" per se, can someone who know confirm or deny that the Colt SMG mags are based off of the Browning Hi-power mags? This would make a big difference if I could pair this with my SA-35.
Fingers crossed
deadduck357
Professional
No, based off Uzi mags.While I really don't care about this "pistol" per se, can someone who know confirm or deny that the Colt SMG mags are based off of the Browning Hi-power mags? This would make a big difference if I could pair this with my SA-35.
Fingers crossed
deadduck357
Professional
This ^^
Dobbinsky
Custom
Looks ridiculous, shooting it at arms length without the stock extended. Also looks like fun. Cheaper ammo, high capacity, and another gun to make CA faint. But I wouldn't buy one. I'd borrow Belt Fed's.
Oh yeah, and I wish that guy in the video wouldn't say "At the end of the day." At the end of the day, it seems like it's becoming a cliche' phrase.
Oh yeah, and I wish that guy in the video wouldn't say "At the end of the day." At the end of the day, it seems like it's becoming a cliche' phrase.
My ONLY gripe... Everyone wants small and compact. OK, so most 9mm pistols run a 4-inch +/- barrel. What's does 5-inches buy you? OK, so it has a stabilizer which can improve range; same principle as an old Mauser broomhandle pistol. My PDW is VERY similar, but I'm running an 8-inch barrel. Where I feel (but don't know from experience) a 16-inch carbine in 9mm is not where'd I'd take 9mm, 8-inches is the sweet spot for any ammo you might shoot. C'mon SA, offer an 8-inch barrel to maximize the potential of the high-perf ammo we shoot. 
MiataMinded
Alpha
I like that I can get ~5x the amount of 9mm for a given price compared to 5.56. It's lead me to shoot my variety of 9mm guns much more often than my 5.56 guns and feel much more proficient and confident in them. For pretty much that reason alone I'm going to stick with 9mm guns for the foreseeable future. I really like that the Saint Victor training transfers very well to other AR platform guns though. I could see myself buying an AR-9 for that reason but $1200+ does seem a bit steep to me.
PieterCoetzee
Professional
Sooo lets break the category (SMGs, PDWs et'al) down a little deeper and for the purposes of this we'll as semi auto but built like their full auto cousins. First there were "just" SMGs (gen 1 stuff) think Thompson. That phased into gen 2 stuff MP40, Grease Gun, etc and then gen three for which the MP5 is the classic. There were plenty of over laps like the M-10 (Mac 10) and Vz61 and maybe even the Beretta 93R (but thats for another discussion.My ONLY gripe... Everyone wants small and compact. OK, so most 9mm pistols run a 4-inch +/- barrel. What's does 5-inches buy you? OK, so it has a stabilizer which can improve range; same principle as an old Mauser broomhandle pistol. My PDW is VERY similar, but I'm running an 8-inch barrel. Where I feel (but don't know from experience) a 16-inch carbine in 9mm is not where'd I'd take 9mm, 8-inches is the sweet spot for any ammo you might shoot. C'mon SA, offer an 8-inch barrel to maximize the potential of the high-perf ammo we shoot.
Today we have GoToWar size guns UZI, MP5, Colt SMG all having 10inch (or so barrels) and not designed for concealment. We also have MINI/MICRO guns THIS is where the M-10 comes into the game, but also the shorter barrel options (Colt DOE etc) essentially with barrels in the 5-6" range. Yes you loose some ballistic improvement (but really how much). What you gain is less weight and much more concealability especially with the stock folded BUT when the stock/brace is extended you get significantly better control over a 5" pistol
Toss actual PDW cartridges (5.7, 4.6 etc) and that like spilling chocolate milk on your homework assignment
The key to your reply is that you focus on machineguns. Like with rifles, the main reason to carry an SMG caliber is that you can carry more ammo. This is definitely a consideraion with executive protection. I have no problem whatsoever with an UZI, MP5K, etc. but I'm looking at this as a semiauto. IMHO, that's the diff. Sure, my gun's heavier, but I'm not picturing myself carrying it concealed. It is a downsized, practical small caliber maneuverable firearm. (I'm not picturing the Secret Service Agent pulling an UZI from under his coat back when Ronald Reagan was shot.) I have a sling on it. I've tried and I can actually carry it under a long winter coat, but to what end? I'd never do it. If "things" get that bad, I'm gonna have it handy and ready. Heck, I can't find anyone to make me a custom holster for my S&W Perf Center 9mm with a Veridian C5 laser hanging under it. (I'm still looking.) How am I gonna carry this? The Saint and mine are great "truck guns", but c'mon... no one's going to be concealing this. It might be small, but before talking about concealment, you also have to consider how. BTW, if I had to carry a PDW that was select fire, I'd have no problem with one in 5.7x28.
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PieterCoetzee
Professional
Lets say that I focus on tactical considerations.
WELL yes your can carry more ammo but SMGs and their semi cousins are typically smaller lighter and offer a lot less blast in shorter barrels. They also are balletically suitable for most urban and suburban distances
I would suggest that most SMGs (real SMGs) used in Executive Protection details are fired in semi, at least that was MY experience
How you carry it is of course up to you. For point of history the Secret Service carried their UZI in a Samsonite brief case in you look at the pics, the case in open on the ground (to fit the gun in the brief case they had to shorten the barrel an inch or so)
Im suggesting that the shorter guns/barrels ARE as you say more maneuverable, especially in confined spaces (homes, cars)
IF I had to carry a PDW that was select fire, I'd have no problem with one in 5.7x28. On THIS my friend we definitely AGREE