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Gun Games are not STREET training

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USMC6094 said:
You're (trying to) equating shooting matches to real life situations.
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NO just the opposite, I keep saying matches are NOT real life

USMC6094 said:
When I was a Cop I shot IPSC and USPSA in my duty gear, knowing full well it didn't equate to any real life scenario.
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EXACTLY

USMC6094 said:
I wasn't gunning for the top ten, or even top twenty. I generally hung in the middle. But I was using a triple retention holster, full power ammo (ballistic equivalent to duty HP), and repetition from lots, and LOTS of off duty practice.
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YEP did you see anyone else doing that?
 
Model 457 said:
What about lazer tag and paint ball? Getting hit in the face with a paint ball isn't very fun. These are "gun games", are they not? Getting buzzed out or having a paint ball hit you seem "real life" enough for me. I'll be over by the big windmill next to the clown with the big nose now.....
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As I previously said SIMUNITIONS with the same type of gun you carry is BEST for Force on Force

AIRSOFT with a similar weapon is next best

The various laser systems are a distant third

PaintBall IDK, the guns dont function or feel like your carry weapon. They have huge "magazines" that you never have to change. YES they do have a pain penalty for being caught in the open but its hardly what Id consider a good training option.

You want realistic training, spend the money to take real force on force classes with SIMS in a shoot house. Pay for the video of the shoot house, so you can learn from the mistakes and successes. Then go back and do it again> On the way home by a couple Airsoft guns and gear and practice with your buddy in your back yard then in your basement. In between go to the range and practice Head Shots at 15 then 25 yards. Find a range that lets you move before and between shots
 
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PieterCoetzee said:
As I previously said SIMUNITIONS with the same type of gun you carry is BEST for Force on Force

AIRSOFT with a similar weapon is next best

The various laser systems are a distant third

PaintBall IDK, the guns dont function or feel like your carry weapon. They have huge "magazines" that you never have to change. YES they do have a pain penalty for being caught in the open but its hardly what Id consider a good training option.

You want realistic training, spend the money to take real force on force classes with SIMS in a shoot house. Pay for the video of the shoot house, so you can learn from the mistakes and successes. Then go back and do it again> On the way home by a couple Airsoft guns and gear and practice with your buddy in your back yard then in your basement. In between go to the range and practice Head Shots at 15 then 25 yards. Find a range that lets you move before and between shots
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Ummmmmm....... I was trying to crack funny. In reality, I do happen to have some real life experience on this topic. I have the scar from a bullet wound as a lifelong reminder, and unless miraculously resurected, my aggressor is still pushing daisies up.
 
Model 457 said:
Ummmmmm....... I was trying to crack funny. In reality, I do happen to have some real life experience on this topic. I have the scar from a bullet wound as a lifelong reminder, and unless miraculously resurected, my aggressor is still pushing daisies up.
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Nice work Brother
 
PieterCoetzee said:
NO just the opposite, I keep saying matches are NOT real life


EXACTLY


YEP did you see anyone else doing that?
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Boy you're picking knat $#!+ out of pepper........

No, no one else in my department indulged in either type match, whether they were regular street cops, or the exalted SRT guys.

But again you're trying to extrapolate shooting "games" into a real life equivalent, or as a joke trying to equate it to it.

My question is, have you ever been sworn, or carried a gun as part your daily employment, or career?

It's the easiest thing in the world to armchair QB what you've never done.
 
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FNFAN said:
This is a sentiment that has been expressed since the 1970's with people competing in PPC.
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It's been enough years the youngsters don't remember .

But once upon a time , an Ofc from reining champion 4 man PPC team , walked into a liquor store robbery in progress . Armed robber recieved a very tight group in his X Ring .
FNFAN said:
decades long professional gun carrier and you get absolutely blown away in a match
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It has been my observation that Ofc qualified as Expert is low end of mid range at a local club match .
 
Guys you gotta read the whole thread, we've been over this...

USMC6094 said:
But again you're trying to extrapolate shooting "games" into a real life equivalent, or as a joke trying to equate it to it.
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No just the opposite... Ive been saying that games are not like the street and the problem is folks say they are and when I outline the fallacy of that folks get upset
USMC6094 said:
My question is, have you ever been sworn, or carried a gun as part your daily employment, or career?
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30+ years Patrol, Plain Clothes, Instructor, Protection Detail, SRT. If you had bothered to read the thread you would have seen that. Im not trying to be rude but come'on; if youre gonna suggest that Im Monday Morning QBing something that I dont have any experience with you might wanna check first.
 
USMC6094 said:
I've read every post in this thread, and yeah I'll admit that you have more street time than I do, but you sure don't have any issues with preaching off your high horse
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OK so do you really want information from someone who has doubts?

I presented the information and then I got slammed by guys who didnt like it and Im guessing didnt bother to read the points. Thats like enrolling in a class that you never attend but being pissed that you failed Please we are all supposed to be adults here. AND lets be clear I never resorted to name calling

The stuff I put out is tested in the real world. I didnt make this shite up, I lived it.

You guys can accept or or not but Im not gonna beg anyone.....and now you can bet someone will get upset about this
 
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I read and reread these posts twice, just in case I missed the proper way to street train, but there is not one suggestion.
Since the training all these members do are considered "games" what does your training consist of??
I am always looking for new ways to protect myself and my family.
This is not a dis on your career or your real-world experiences, commoners like me are always willing to learn.
 
Wirenut said:
I read and reread these posts twice
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Really? You read the entire thread twice? Are you sure? Is that your final answer? Dude if that sounds harsh, its only because Ive said it MULTIPLE times.

So again for those who didnt see it start with practicing HEAD shots at 15 yards then go out to 25 yards. When thats comfortable move onto.....wait for it

FORCE on FORCE
Actual SIMUNITIONS is the best using the same type weapon as your carry gun
Next best is AIRSOFT again using the same type of weapon as your carry gun

Sims give you visual and pain reminders of you mistakes. Airsoft is cheaper but still gives a pain reminder and you can do it in your back yard
 
PieterCoetzee said:
Really? You read the entire thread twice? Are you sure? Is that your final answer? Dude if that sounds harsh, its only because Ive said it MULTIPLE times.

So again for those who didnt see it start with practicing HEAD shots at 15 yards then go out to 25 yards. When thats comfortable move onto.....wait for it

FORCE on FORCE
Actual SIMUNITIONS is the best using the same type weapon as your carry gun
Next best is AIRSOFT again using the same type of weapon as your carry gun

Sims give you visual and pain reminders of you mistakes. Airsoft is cheaper but still gives a pain reminder and you can do it in your back yard
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Do ypu practice in your backyard? Pictures of your backyard set up would be nice
 
PieterCoetzee said:
Let me start by saying I have no issue with Gun Games; but I put them in the same realm as Pickle Ball and Miniature Gulf. If you enjoy them, then have fun, maybe youll even beat the Windmill and get the ball in the clowns nose. Yippee.

Seriously have fun but dont delude yourself into thinking you are training for a real life gun fight. Gunfights arent scripted. You dont get to walk around wearing competition holsters and mag pouches made for speed loads. Chances are you wont be open carrying or wearing spandex (well maybe the spandex???)

Yes gun games value speed; but maybe at too high a cost. In a REAL world gunfight, youll be moving but you probably wont be sprinting through the whole fight. Theres no bonus points for finishing FIRST, only for finishing.

Yes gun games value accuracy; but again at what cost? HITS matter and Face shots end fights, True enough.

Gun Games breed POOR tactics. In Real life there are no walk throughs before a gunfight. There are no see through walls made out netting. IF youre lucky you may know the neighborhood; but you wont know where the cars are parked and if someone left the hose unrolled or a bike on the lawn. Gun Games arent usually scheduled in the snow or pouring rain. REAL fights arent scheduled at all.

Most importantly Gun Games dont have incoming rounds. Nobody tells you ahead of time how many rounds youll need or to save your empty/partial mags. Nobody says blow the dust off your red dot before the buzzer. Gun Games dont teach you the value of slicing the pie on corners, because that takes time. Gun Games dont teach you to be constantly aware of your surroundings, because that kid you thought was innocent might be creeping up behind you with bad intent. In the real world you wont be unloading after shooting stops like you do in a game.

AGAIN enjoy the games if you like
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I'll start by saying that I've not even attended a competitive event. However, I believe that competitions can add at least one important element to one's set of experiences, and that is at least the semblance of the element of stress. Many of us are just average citizens who enjoy shooting, and thus go to the range to shoot in a rather casual environment. What the range does NOT provide is anything even CLOSE to the stress of an actual gunfight. Gun games can add this element.

I'll also add that defensive firearm training is also worthwhile if administered by a competent instructor. A good firearms training instructor will get your thought processes going, and that will serve you well in a pinch. I credit the fact that I'm alive today (and so is another person) to formal training that I've taken. I was in a situation that COULD have led to an exchange of gunfire but did not because I was able to keep my cool. I'm not certain I could have done so without the thought processes (and confidence) implanted from the training I'd taken.
 
OldGrunt said:
Do ypu practice in your backyard? Pictures of your backyard set up would be nice
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For my buddy OldGrumpy (sarcasm) seriously Brother its not difficult
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For the rest of you here are some pics from the web

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If you wanna a some twists toss some lawn chairs into the mix, leave the hose and sprinkler out there. The barrels and barricades are a nice touch if your wife will put up with it
 
RedGoat said:
the element of stress
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Wow how many times have I heard THAT. Game stress is not STREET stress. The worse that happens in a game is you dont win. When you dont win on the STREET, somebody sends flowers to your wife. Game Stress is waiting for the roulette wheel to stop. Street stress is waiting for the shooting to STOP. Theres NO Comparison and people who tell you its the same are wrong.
RedGoat said:
I'll also add that defensive firearm training is also worthwhile
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No arguments there. Yes get training. Get lots of training. Learn how to manipulate your weapon and gear. Learn to Get Off the X. Learn to shoot while moving. Learn about proactive reloads. Learn to make HEAD Shots. Learn about anchoring shots and when they are appropriate. Yes all of that and more THEN do force on force
 
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