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Gun Games are not STREET training

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KillerFord1977 said:
patrol officers rarely retrain for FvF, shootings or even quals for their pistol after the academy.
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Again I cant speak for how you think your LEOs train but we had Force or Force drills during every qualification and I bet your local guys do too. We also had "Hands On" training during every Inservice week along with legal updates, GSW/CPR training, field Spanish (which was basically useless), and and and Inservice was separate from Range qualifications
 
SimonRL said:
I exercise another muscle so that I don’t have to worry about getting into a firefight. It’s called my brain.

My experience with people who are always giving it the biggun about anything is that they very rarely measure up.

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Great book, so is On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace by Dave Grossman

We also offered a course on Verbal Judo, to deescalate (some scenes) but Verbal Judo also taught a phrase that let the other officer "know" the taking was over and it was time for cuffs
 
PieterCoetzee said:
Again I cant speak for how you think your LEOs train but we had Force or Force drills during every qualification and I bet your local guys do too. We also had "Hands On" training during every Inservice week along with legal updates, GSW/CPR training, field Spanish (which was basically useless), and and and Inservice was separate from Range qualifications
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Not any “thinking to it”. I regularly have lunch with these people and drinks. Good friends of mine. You do you, we’ll do us.
 
PieterCoetzee said:
Heres another one, I typically dont bring targets home; but just for you maybe I will. This one was for fun, just to see if I could do it and if Im being honest, it wasnt the first target of the day. That was my Off Duty gun, a Glock 35, with a 357Sig barrel and a Trigicon RMR.
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I shot that pistol out to 200 yards making bodyshots.


You know Im fairly confident nothing I could sow you would satisfy you but heres the Lion I shot in RSA
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We were tracking her; because she had gone rogue. We were on her trail when she snuck around and came up on our rear. I made a hasty shot at 20 yards...and thanks to President Obama not having a clue about game keeping, she cant be imported to the US


These are pics from last weeks Pig hunt. My buddy had never hunted before. He used a 6.5 Creedmore
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Me in my Roland Tembo "look" using a BIG Double
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How is a lion and hog showing us training. Is this pertinent to street gun fights? Carbine use. Sure. Lot can be learned from shooting an animal on the run. Leads, timing, etc. but not the question asked of you. My kids at 10 were dropping hogs. Not pertinent to the conversation, but neither was your pic on the topic at hand
 
KillerFord1977 said:
How is a lion and hog showing us training. Is this pertinent to street gun fights? Carbine use. Sure. Lot can be learned from shooting an animal on the run. Leads, timing, etc. but not the question asked of you. My kids at 10 were dropping hogs. Not pertinent to the conversation, but neither was your pic on the topic at hand
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You guys wanted to see pictures and I wanted to post pics of my buddys first hunt. So I took a page from your book and ignored your post. Hows that working out?

I however DO note that you ignored my headshot pics and qualification target
 
KillerFord1977 said:
Not any “thinking to it”. I regularly have lunch with these people and drinks. Good friends of mine. You do you, we’ll do us.
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If their training is as limited as you say Id have questions. I have NO doubt that they are good friends and are good guys; but even MDs have "Continuing Professional Training" requirements. I suspect your buddies get more training then you know
 
It doesn't look like you can drop and do 25 pushups before you start your range of fire. And I did see your posts on another forum from 2019, pretty much bragging and posting the same stuff here "Edelweiss". The internet is forever. Looks like you didn't make a whole lot of friends on that forum either. And I'm still waiting for you to list your published works. Let's go back to square one, from way back when you first started posting on this forum. I originally tried to let you know that perhaps you should change your approach to your posts. You were really turning people off on your style. Many now have said the same thing. Get a clue.
 
PieterCoetzee said:
You guys wanted to see pictures and I wanted to post pics of my buddys first hunt. So I took a page from your book and ignored your post. Hows that working out?

I however DO note that you ignored my headshot pics and qualification target
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Still didn’t answer the questions asked of you by others how you train. Nice shooting, but that could be a 3 yard target just like anyone else’s. My targets have been posted a lot. Even how I train.
The point is one you don’t understand. You preach “your way” is golden, but still have not fully comprehended there are many other ways that work also without degrading everyone that competition matches are not real life street training. 5 pages of you defending your position pretty much sums up that reality.
Listen, you are probably a great shot and a great hunter, but so are thousands on this forum and out on the streets.

So, to quote you:
“Seriously have fun but dont delude yourself into thinking you are training for a real life gun fight“.

My answer:
I am training for a real gun fight. It’s ingraining muscle memory, reactions and pistol technique that will hopefully give that edge over someone who puts me in a position to use a gun.

Bottom line:
You are dead fu king wrong on that quote and too stupid enough to understand it so you spent 5 pages defending it. Blowhard
 
Guys Ive never said you have to do what I suggest only that what Ive suggested, works and has been tested in the real world. You dont like it dont do it

Nope I couldnt pass an airborne PT anymore, can you? You wanna call me fat, go ahead. You guys are famous for that kind of stuff
 
KillerFord1977 said:
Suggest
That’s funny 😂😂😂😂😂😂
You mean preach
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And AGAIN do you want to hear from someone who isnt confident in whats being said

If you think Im preaching, then look back at some of your posts. This whole thing started when I saud something and a few of you guys jumped all over it like I said something about your mother.
 
PieterCoetzee said:
And AGAIN do you want to hear from someone who isnt confident in whats being said

If you think Im preaching, then look back at some of your posts. This whole thing started when I saud something and a few of you guys jumped all over it like I said something about your mother.
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This sums up your 5 pages:
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I'm well aware that we live in dangerous times. Hell, I live right next door to the most dangerous city in my state. I do carry a gun most anytime I leave the house. But I refuse to live in fear or a constant state of Condition Red. Nor do I expect boogymen to pop up around every corner.
I'm confident enough in my abilities and awareness to address anything that may come up. I'm fine with that.
 
Grayfox said:
I'm well aware that we live in dangerous times. Hell, I live right next door to the most dangerous city in my state. I do carry a gun most anytime I leave the house. But I refuse to live in fear or a constant state of Condition Red. Nor do I expect boogymen to pop up around every corner.
I'm confident enough in my abilities and awareness to address anything that may come up. I'm fine with that.
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Yahtzee!
 
PieterCoetzee said:
You guys wanted to see pictures and I wanted to post pics of my buddys first hunt. So I took a page from your book and ignored your post. Hows that working out?

I however DO note that you ignored my headshot pics and qualification target
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I hate to be that guy PC, but your headshots I call Tuesday and I’ve hit targets out to 200 with a handgun. It’s not easy, but it’s just about putting the time in. It doesn’t make any of us special.
 
Fine, I’ll jump in.

I will agree with the statement that Simunitions training is great.

However…

I’m pretty much a training junkie. I will take any class I can get to and afford. Having said that, my last Simunitions class was at least eight years ago. It was also my only Simunitions class.
I would take more, but that was the only chance I’ve had to take one. I’m not even sure if it was a full day in length.

Being non-LE, the opportunities simply aren’t there.

But I can find an IDPA match twice a month with only moderate effort. I can probably find three or four USPSA matches in that same time. I could probably double those amounts with not much more effort.

By doing so:

-I shoot my carry gun.

-From the same holster, carry position, and concealment I use every day.

-In scenarios someone else thought up for me.

-Using various target systems I didn’t have to buy.

-And using moving target systems I never could buy.

-Using “cover” I never could’ve setup on my own.

-Getting critiqued by the rest of my squad.

In the process of this, I get to do things most people never, ever, get to practice, and I can do this several times each month, year round.

All for $20 or less, plus three or four gallons of gas.

Even if I shot the matches as a “gamer”, which I don’t, I would still get practice at the gun manipulations so they can be done automatically if and when I have to deal with finding cover/pushing or pulling family to cover/avoiding trip hazards/or yes, dodging flying bullets.
And again, I can do this several times a month, year round.

I can do this, orrrrrr…

I could sit at home and wish I had a Simunition class to go to.
 
PieterCoetzee said:
So again for those who didnt see it start with practicing HEAD shots at 15 yards then go out to 25 yards. When thats comfortable move onto.....wait for it
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I even brought this up , upthread , but here goes :

The 15 , 25 yard head size is a * yardstick * , it's not the beginning training step .

Big picture GOAL , is to be able to make Precise Hits , when , and as needed , with reasonable confidence .

If you can't make precise hits under favorable conditions , you're not going to magically shoot better under stress .

Old School Marksmanship Fundimentals as foundation .

7 yards is a baked in , collective consciousness relavent distance . Cool ! Wonderful ! You can constructively practice & train precision skills primarily at 7 yards . Seriously .

Your goal is 1 inch groups to point of aim @ 7 yards . That amount of precision exceedes what we've been talking about . 1.5 inch @ 7 yds is still pretty close to 25 yd head , and up to 2 inch is pretty close to 15yd head . The main difference with Actual Distance is verifing POI/ POA at distance .


Once you are starting to progress with pure hit making , simultaniously add in making First Shot Hit , from ( Whatever you consider starting status . Typically holster , but if your home defense concept is low ready , hidden behind leg in hand , whatever , roll with that .)

[ No , don't expect the abovementioned 1 inch groups for this . The LE world is moving away from B27 for ressons , but borrowing the Dimensions of the B27's 10 ring , it's a hair smaller than 4x6 index card . A not unreasonable starting point for a " not slow " first shot hit , but placed more realistically than on a B27 .]

Don't initially obsess over stopwatch or timer . Initially start with what is subjective " medium speed " to you .

These two things will start you from zero to medium competiant gun fundimentals .


Ok . Enough book length pontificating for the moment .
 
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