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Guns for When the System Finally Falls Silent

The Scavenger 6 described is an enigma. Haven't seen one available, yet.

Is it feasible to shoot a variety of dissimilar calibers from a single barrel? That certainly appears to be the presumption here.

We are expected to believe that shooting a 1/4" diameter projectile from a 3/8" (perhaps even larger) bore will produce consistent velocity or accuracy? I suppose it could work in an extreme close quarters situation, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Aside from that, there are some valid arguments for each choice. Not every situation one could encounter can be addressed by any of these options. I find it interesting that none of these "experts" mentioned a shotgun or a .22LR rifle.

Their assumptions regarding their selections appear to boil down to ammo supply. Seems weird that they fail to consider the supply of 12 gauge when making their choices.
 
Maybe 50 years ago Mel Tappen wrote "Survival Guns". He broke the guns into TWO categories (Defense and Working). If I can summarize his topic, he suggested COMMON cartridges for example 12 ga being easier to find then 28 ga, and 308 easier to find then 333 Bishop (?). He acknowledged there may be better guns and better cartridges but the COMMON ones in your area would have better long term survival potential

Im stretching to remember but I think he suggested
30-06 for hunting
308 for hunting and defense
30-30 if you lived where that was popular
223/556 for defense and some hunting
22LR
12 gauge (possibly 20 gauge)
38SPL
357 magnum
44 magnum
45acp
possibly 9mm

Remember this was written in the late 70s

Having EVERY cartridge covered just because you might find 32 Wizbang seems overly and unnecessarily complicated. Id rather have 10,000 rounds of 308 then 100 of this and 100 of that.
 
This discussion always comes down to percieved context of Firefight vs Wilderness Survival . Mel Tappan did well at splitting the difference . Updates for 50 years later :

Drop .30-06 , and .30-30

Big astrix for .38spl , .357 , and .44

Two astrix for .45acp .

Of course l'm cringing at eliminating some of my favored ctgs , but being 2020's pagmatic , as to what's most prevailant nowadays .

'06 and .30-30 are now niche nostolga ctgs . .38spl and .357 aren't niche yet , but 9mm is now overwhelmingly most commonly caliber for centerfire handguns of all sizes , and " normal handgun purposes " . Plus certain usefulness in carbines .

.38/ .357 considered primarily , only if you Also have a .357 Carbine . Even moreso , .44mag primarily a short to medium range rifle , with revolver as afterthough .

.45acp , only to the extent of being medium to large game capable , that doubles for defense .
 
Shift the parameters to Emphasize lack of supply chain for long term :

.22LR , rifle & handgun

Millions of deer and other big game have been poached with .22LR . Stalking , accurate shot placement , and trailing will be core survival skills .

Because it is feasable in space , weight , and expense to maintain an actual Lifetime Supply in advance of .22LR . We're talking 5K , 10K , 50K rounds on hand .
 
For perment lack of supply chain , Flintlick Musket .

BP can be homemade , and flint is naturally occuring . Smoothbore musket can cover shotgun roles , and round ball , or better Buck & Ball used to be standard Infantry Weapon of 100's of years , and B&B will have decent probability of something hitting man size target for best part of 100 yds .

Yeah , yeah . Rifle Musket & a Minie Ball mold for longer range , but trade off of shotgun analog capability .
 
Biggfoot44 said:
This discussion always comes down to percieved context of Firefight vs Wilderness Survival . Mel Tappan did well at splitting the difference . Updates for 50 years later :

Drop .30-06 , and .30-30

Big astrix for .38spl , .357 , and .44

Two astrix for .45acp .

Of course l'm cringing at eliminating some of my favored ctgs , but being 2020's pagmatic , as to what's most prevailant nowadays .

'06 and .30-30 are now niche nostolga ctgs . .38spl and .357 aren't niche yet , but 9mm is now overwhelmingly most commonly caliber for centerfire handguns of all sizes , and " normal handgun purposes " . Plus certain usefulness in carbines .

.38/ .357 considered primarily , only if you Also have a .357 Carbine . Even moreso , .44mag primarily a short to medium range rifle , with revolver as afterthough .

.45acp , only to the extent of being medium to large game capable , that doubles for defense .
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Agreed

I would only add that I think 30-06 (maybe 270) and 30-30 are still popular among some hunters LOCATION depending. If we factor in location extremes 375 H&H is still popular in Alaska and 7mm Mag in others. If you live close to Canada 303 British might be a worthy option

I do think 9mm has supplanted most other self defense handgun cartridges. Unless a 38/357 lever carbine is a choice because of local laws banning semi autos, a small 5 shot revolver seems a low priority.

I bear country a 44 magnum with an additional supply of 44 Spl ammo might not be a bad idea. Personally Im a 45Colt fan so I have opted for a Freedom Arms SAA in 454 (and 45 Colt) BUT 44 magnum is certainly a "hardware store" (popular) cartridge.

There will always be guys who swear by 45acp.

22LR seems too cheap and versatile not to have a few handguns, rifles and tonnes of ammo

Im not a fan but 6.5 "Needmore" is becoming popular

***I was unable to open the article, so Im not sure if it was addressed but this might be a place for the barrel inserts for single barrel shotguns....Ive had generally positive results

And of course the T/C Encore will give you lots of options

I think I might also add a good quality spring piston pellet rifle

This is also where I would want a few suppressors and a long(er) distance precision rifle for 2 and 4 legged pests


As in everything LOCATION for game and threats should be considered. I dont think Id place too much emphasis on upland game hunting. Shotguns are great but the ammo takes up a lot of space and I just dont see a huge space in survival for wing shooting. Whats considered NOT SPORTING, like shooting birds on the ground) today may be necessary in a survival situation.
 
Biggfoot44 said:
For perment lack of supply chain , Flintlick Musket .

BP can be homemade , and flint is naturally occuring . Smoothbore musket can cover shotgun roles , and round ball , or better Buck & Ball used to be standard Infantry Weapon of 100's of years , and B&B will have decent probability of something hitting man size target for best part of 100 yds .

Yeah , yeah . Rifle Musket & a Minie Ball mold for longer range , but trade off of shotgun analog capability .
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Youre not wrong but i sure hope I never have to search for and Knap flints, let alone make my own black powder
 
Biggfoot44 said:
Shift the parameters to Emphasize lack of supply chain for long term :

.22LR , rifle & handgun

Millions of deer and other big game have been poached with .22LR . Stalking , accurate shot placement , and trailing will be core survival skills .

Because it is feasable in space , weight , and expense to maintain an actual Lifetime Supply in advance of .22LR . We're talking 5K , 10K , 50K rounds on hand .
Click to expand...
I think it was Tappen who even suggested a 22lr could be used to fool an adversary that you were poorly armed by shooting at him with the 22lr until he/they came into the open at close range. At that point you could switch to better guns with more precious ammo.
 
50 years ago, Tappen envisioned an economic collapse as the most likely event. He suggest finding a property where you could do some light subsistence farming or offer some other post collapse skill. He also suggest moving to that community well before any problem where you would be welcomed and not looked upon as a stranger.

Today I would agree with being as far away from a blue city as possible, with the understanding that totally going rural seldom works for those that cant work from home. I would also suggest that recent incidents have shown that the city dwellers wont stay in the city forever once the food stops being delivered.

To this Id suggest a strong emphasis on heavy defense weapons and a neighborhood watch on steroids. How do you stop the looters who have burned their city and now want what you have, when kind words and stay away signs dont work?

We have a member here going by the tag Belt Fed so Im guessing he might find one or two such weapons in his basement. Hes a guy you want on your neighborhood watch; but you also want young guys who can hump patrols and guys that have commo skills and gear, (maybe a drone or two). If your lucky someone might even have a 37mm launcher with Pepper and Flash Bangs and maybe a Civil War re-enactor with a cannon....

Do you have basic teaching skills because someone has to teach the little ones to read and do there sums. New comers can be used to plow fields and weed gardens for a meal.

Theres so much more to survival then what guns to have

Ill also add that short of the rapture, things have always returned to some rule of law condition. So the guy you shoot a 500 yards who was stealing peaches from your trees, just might have a family who convinces the new sheriff it was murder and you were the sniper.
 
I think this thing is kind of a moot point for 98% of this forum's members. To just hightail it into the wilderness because of some Road Warrior dystopian catastrophe befalling civilization won't pertain to the vast majority of us. Most of us are just too old and crippled, or have family members that are and just can't survive without a functioning society. A lot of members here or their family members would just plain die when their medications or medical treatments run out or stop. Most city people would just die in the great die off. Maybe people living in rural areas will be better off, but for how long? Small, organized communities might be a better answer. Hold up and hide out during the mass die off, and then try to organize for the greater good. You are just living in a fantasy if your 60 some year old self is going to become another Grizzly Adams. I'll just stay where I am at with my wife and help neighbors or let them help us out.
 
OldGrunt said:
I think this thing is kind of a moot point for 98% of this forum's members. To just hightail it into the wilderness because of some Road Warrior dystopian catastrophe befalling civilization won't pertain to the vast majority of us. Most of us are just too old and crippled, or have family members that are and just can't survive without a functioning society. A lot of members here or their family members would just plain die when their medications or medical treatments run out or stop. Most city people would just die in the great die off. Maybe people living in rural areas will be better off, but for how long? Small, organized communities might be a better answer. Hold up and hide out during the mass die off, and then try to organize for the greater good. You are just living in a fantasy if your 60 some year old self is going to become another Grizzly Adams. I'll just stay where I am at with my wife and help neighbors or let them help us out.
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Well said and yet sad to contemplate. Neighbors helping neighbors is what the world used to be.

Getting old aint for the meek; but Id rather go out with the slide locked back on an empty mag and a floor full of links and fired brass; then in my sleep in a bed full of crap
 
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Belt Fed said:
Pics?
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81WqO4tsA9L._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg
 
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