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Guns of the State Police/Highway Patrol

ECS686 said:
Oh I wouldn’t say cheap is the jnky reason. We have learned a lot more about tactical anatomy since 1986 and they have the rounds down. A 124 HST or Gold Dot at 1,200 fps has certainly killed a lot of guys and at lower 357 mag end terminal ballistics
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I’m still not sold. Each test and statistical analysis can be manipulate to make things better than anything else. I’ll keep my self defense of Hornady Critical Duty.
 
Jsimon78 said:
I’m still not sold. Each test and statistical analysis can be manipulate to make things better than anything else. I’ll keep my self defense of Hornady Critical Duty.
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I dive into this frequently. The top 3 issued duty rounds in 9mm are 124 HST or Gold Dit and 135 Critical Duty all plus P. The 147 Hold Dit and HST fall behind them. The Winchester is 4th.

Every agency that uses the above if they have solid hits have dropped the bad guy (Indianapolis PD shoot about 20 people a year majority with 9mm Glocks and HST and they are fate more than not)

A 45 while effective and I
Have carried the 45 by choice because I like it. Shot placement to shot placement it will not make a bad guy any more injured, dead disabled etc than a compatible 9mm round will.

And when a Doctor pulls a bullet out (service handgun type from 9mm, 40,45) the would itself a surgeon even stated he can’t tell the difference what the caliber was until they look at the actual projectile as the wounds are similar.

So short of say a 357 or 44 mag through a rifle that started to do rifle type trama pistol calibers through pistol barrels poke holes in people and that’s about it!

While cost if a benefit the effectiveness is there with 124-147 9mm now each agencies teainjng on the other hand maybe not!
 
I’ve never understood the recoil of the 40s being so much worse than the 9mm such that it made whole departments switch.

But I continue to hear that …. story?
 
Anchorite said:
I’ve never understood the recoil of the 40s being so much worse than the 9mm such that it made whole departments switch.

But I continue to hear that …. story?
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The problem with 40 isn’t as much being hard on shokters but it’s hard in guns. 40 is better designed for and ran through either steel or alloy frame guns OR they run a handgun actually designed around the 40 (HK USP, Sig 229, S&W M&P) vs an existing 9mm and just throwing a 40 cal Barrel and breech plug in (Glock Beretta 92/96 etc)

And with the not followed firearms maintenance by most departments they were having to replace broken guns way more frequently. One reason Glock went to the 2 spring guid rod system agencies (and users) nebwr changed the springs as frequently as recommended

And an example of that is on Glocks Gen 5 40 cals have a wider and slightly heavier frame than the Gen 2-4 40 cals

The other thing that kept 40 in popularity was it was the limited caliber of USPSA whem they had 2 divisions up until around 2004 when they started expanding and one could compete with a 9mm in production class

There is also a cost factor for large agencies especially since Covid.

From my time associated through FLETC Feds carry duty ammo from three main places Hornady 135 plus p Critical Duty, 124 plus P and 147 Gold Dot and 124 or 147 HST and they are killing a lot of folks with them

Even the Border Patrol running 147 G2 Gold Dot while some amature gel testers call it a failure with their one round shoddy test it’s funny that is the duty load for Border Patrol, LASO and DEV Group (aka Seal Team 6) and people are getting shot almost daily with it and dying
 
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