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Hazardous Thought

Talyn

SAINT
Founding Member
When it comes to engaging in armed conflict, people want to believe they know how the fight will start, finish and how their opponent will engage. Making assumptions can put you at a disadvantage before the fight ever begins.

Hazardous Thought

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The “My Gunfight” mindset…

I posted this elsewhere, I’ll repost.

*****^***
I’ve read this on a couple of different forums...very applicable here, I think. I did not write this, either—it’s by Larry Correia (notes at bottom of the article).


***********

Thinking outside your box"

"...Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong......"
by Larry Correia


I've been a concealed carry instructor for five years, I hang out with a bunch of gun nuts, and I've been around self-defense buffs for most of my adult life. In that time I've seen a recurring theme, and unfortunately it can be a dangerous one. Many of us have something in common.

I call it My Gunfight. We've imagined a scene, a violent encounter, in our head. And in this scene, we take decisive action and we prevail and save the day. Many of us have a mental fabrication of what My Gunfight is going to be like.

Most people who chose to carry a gun have done this. I have myself. It isn't anything to be ashamed of. In fact, it really helps develop a proper mindset to be able to realistically assess what kind of terrible things can happen to you and start laying some groundwork about how we want to respond.

The problem comes in when we make assumptions about My Gunfight.
Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong.

I have had students tell me that they never practice at anything past conversational distance, because the average gunfight takes place at only seven feet. See, in Their Gunfight, the bad guy will be conveniently placed at a distance that they can actually hit stuff.

Sadly, there's no such thing as an average gunfight. The only thing they have in common is that they all suck. If you only prepare for a gunfight inside an elevator, it will be a bummer when the crazy guy starts shooting at you across the mall. I've had students tell me that if the assailant is that far away, then they wouldn't be justified in shooting. That's also a mistake. There are hundreds of reasons why you might need to shoot somebody out past conversational distance. And if you find yourself in a situation where you need to, you dang well better have practiced.

Another assumption I get from many students is that they will have plenty of time to draw their gun and get it into action. Oftentimes these folks want to carry with an empty chamber. There is a misconception that this is somehow safer, and besides in Their Gunfight, they'll have plenty of time, and both hands available, to get their pistol into action.

In real life, the bad guys may not be as compliant as the ones in Your Gunfight. In real life, the violence may occur so quickly that you do not have time to rack the slide. Or you may have one hand occupied holding the bad guy back from stabbing you in the head with a screwdriver. The point is, you won't know until it happens. Even best case scenario you've added a significant amount of time to your draw stroke (and if you've been in a fight to the death, you know that even a second is a significant amount of time), and one more chance to fumble and screw up.

During my regular class, I integrate a role-playing session. We go through several realistic scenarios with students and actors armed with rubber weapons. All of these scenarios are based on actual cases, and like real life, most of them tend to happen quickly.

Usually after going through the role-plays, nobody is tempted to carry chamber empty anymore. A fatal assumption was pointed out in Their Gunfight, and they adjust accordingly. If you're really worried about carrying with a loaded chamber, get a good, safe holster that keeps the gun secure and protects the trigger. If you still have a mental hang up, switch to a gun that has a heavier trigger or other safety devices. Anything is faster and safer than assuming you'll be in a position to rack a slide.

These are just a few examples of assumptions caused by My Gunfight.
One of my personal favorite students of all time was hung up, not only on carrying chamber empty, but he also had a belief that he would "easily" be able to neutralize the bad guy by shooting them in the leg. No, I kid you not. He brought this up repeatedly during class, even after I pointed out that it could be just as fatal only slower, the same lethal force in the eyes of the law, and with the added benefit of not being nearly as effective at incapacitating an actual threat. What did I know? I was only the guy he was paying to teach him this stuff.

During the role-play, he was lucky enough to get a scenario that I use to demonstrate the principles of a Tueller drill. Without going into too many details, I'm playing the part of an obviously dangerous threat, interrupted in the act of committing a forcible felony on a third person, with the ability and opportunity to cause him serious bodily harm, and I just happen to start twenty-one feet away with a rubber knife.

I charged. He went for his gun. Not only did he fail to rack the slide and shoot me in the leg like he had talked about, he managed to draw the gun, fumble, and actually tossed it across the room. I stabbed him a few times, and as a happy bonus, picked his gun up before I fled the scene.

His Gunfight had not taken into account things like speed, adrenalin, or confusion. Last I checked, he was carrying a chamber loaded Glock, in a good holster, and practicing a bunch.

That was an extreme example, but I think all of us need to watch out for the decisions we make based upon our assumptions. Be smart, be realistic, and don't be afraid to keep an open mind. Just because My Gunfight makes sense to me, doesn't mean that the world cares one bit.

-Larry Correia is an author, firearms instructor, and one of the owners of Fuzzy Bunny Movie Guns in Draper, Utah. FBMG is a gun store, specializing in self-defense needs, training, and full-line smithing.
His first novel, Monster Hunter International, will be released by Baen Books in June 2009. The author can be reached at larry@fbmginc.com


**************
 
The “My Gunfight” mindset…

I posted this elsewhere, I’ll repost.

*****^***
I’ve read this on a couple of different forums...very applicable here, I think. I did not write this, either—it’s by Larry Correia (notes at bottom of the article).


***********

Thinking outside your box"

"...Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong......"
by Larry Correia


I've been a concealed carry instructor for five years, I hang out with a bunch of gun nuts, and I've been around self-defense buffs for most of my adult life. In that time I've seen a recurring theme, and unfortunately it can be a dangerous one. Many of us have something in common.

I call it My Gunfight. We've imagined a scene, a violent encounter, in our head. And in this scene, we take decisive action and we prevail and save the day. Many of us have a mental fabrication of what My Gunfight is going to be like.

Most people who chose to carry a gun have done this. I have myself. It isn't anything to be ashamed of. In fact, it really helps develop a proper mindset to be able to realistically assess what kind of terrible things can happen to you and start laying some groundwork about how we want to respond.

The problem comes in when we make assumptions about My Gunfight.
Assumptions are awesome when they're actually right, but they sure can hurt when you're wrong.

I have had students tell me that they never practice at anything past conversational distance, because the average gunfight takes place at only seven feet. See, in Their Gunfight, the bad guy will be conveniently placed at a distance that they can actually hit stuff.

Sadly, there's no such thing as an average gunfight. The only thing they have in common is that they all suck. If you only prepare for a gunfight inside an elevator, it will be a bummer when the crazy guy starts shooting at you across the mall. I've had students tell me that if the assailant is that far away, then they wouldn't be justified in shooting. That's also a mistake. There are hundreds of reasons why you might need to shoot somebody out past conversational distance. And if you find yourself in a situation where you need to, you dang well better have practiced.

Another assumption I get from many students is that they will have plenty of time to draw their gun and get it into action. Oftentimes these folks want to carry with an empty chamber. There is a misconception that this is somehow safer, and besides in Their Gunfight, they'll have plenty of time, and both hands available, to get their pistol into action.

In real life, the bad guys may not be as compliant as the ones in Your Gunfight. In real life, the violence may occur so quickly that you do not have time to rack the slide. Or you may have one hand occupied holding the bad guy back from stabbing you in the head with a screwdriver. The point is, you won't know until it happens. Even best case scenario you've added a significant amount of time to your draw stroke (and if you've been in a fight to the death, you know that even a second is a significant amount of time), and one more chance to fumble and screw up.

During my regular class, I integrate a role-playing session. We go through several realistic scenarios with students and actors armed with rubber weapons. All of these scenarios are based on actual cases, and like real life, most of them tend to happen quickly.

Usually after going through the role-plays, nobody is tempted to carry chamber empty anymore. A fatal assumption was pointed out in Their Gunfight, and they adjust accordingly. If you're really worried about carrying with a loaded chamber, get a good, safe holster that keeps the gun secure and protects the trigger. If you still have a mental hang up, switch to a gun that has a heavier trigger or other safety devices. Anything is faster and safer than assuming you'll be in a position to rack a slide.

These are just a few examples of assumptions caused by My Gunfight.
One of my personal favorite students of all time was hung up, not only on carrying chamber empty, but he also had a belief that he would "easily" be able to neutralize the bad guy by shooting them in the leg. No, I kid you not. He brought this up repeatedly during class, even after I pointed out that it could be just as fatal only slower, the same lethal force in the eyes of the law, and with the added benefit of not being nearly as effective at incapacitating an actual threat. What did I know? I was only the guy he was paying to teach him this stuff.

During the role-play, he was lucky enough to get a scenario that I use to demonstrate the principles of a Tueller drill. Without going into too many details, I'm playing the part of an obviously dangerous threat, interrupted in the act of committing a forcible felony on a third person, with the ability and opportunity to cause him serious bodily harm, and I just happen to start twenty-one feet away with a rubber knife.

I charged. He went for his gun. Not only did he fail to rack the slide and shoot me in the leg like he had talked about, he managed to draw the gun, fumble, and actually tossed it across the room. I stabbed him a few times, and as a happy bonus, picked his gun up before I fled the scene.

His Gunfight had not taken into account things like speed, adrenalin, or confusion. Last I checked, he was carrying a chamber loaded Glock, in a good holster, and practicing a bunch.

That was an extreme example, but I think all of us need to watch out for the decisions we make based upon our assumptions. Be smart, be realistic, and don't be afraid to keep an open mind. Just because My Gunfight makes sense to me, doesn't mean that the world cares one bit.

-Larry Correia is an author, firearms instructor, and one of the owners of Fuzzy Bunny Movie Guns in Draper, Utah. FBMG is a gun store, specializing in self-defense needs, training, and full-line smithing.
His first novel, Monster Hunter International, will be released by Baen Books in June 2009. The author can be reached at larry@fbmginc.com


**************
Agree

A gunfight is going to be like a high speed car accident.
Very sudden, very violent and very confusing and non predictable
 
Absolutely.

The problem is thinking you know how it’s gonna happen—that’ll kill you.
All we can do is train for muscle memory and reflex.
There is alway brief fear before bravado..
after the fear dissipates, we can rely on muscle memory and training.
Fight or flight
Draw and shoot
Cover and conceal
Some , many or all of the above may happen at once
 
All we can do is train for muscle memory and reflex.
There is alway brief fear before bravado..
after the fear dissipates, we can rely on muscle memory and training.
Fight or flight
Draw and shoot
Cover and conceal
Some , many or all of the above may happen at once
Here’s a police body cam of how fast it goes sideways.

This was in Fargo, ND, and ended up with one officer fatality.

 
They couldn’t have been good hits then.

Someone give that cop a shotgun. 🤣🤣
There were good hits; target was down…just not fully incapacitated.

Yes, a shotgun (or patrol rifle) would likely have led to a more rapid neutralization…but you fight with what you have…and it looks like what he has was a Glock 17 or 22 (possibly a 31, but I doubt it).
 
apologies in advance for the long post

I reference my security "career" a lot but I did learn a lot of things doing it.

I don't remember who taught me this but I believed really right up to the first time somebody tried to rob me that the mere presence of a gun would act as a deterrent and the criminal would back down.

I've told this story before, I was putting my things in my car getting ready to go to work when two guys walked around the corner of the building and they tried to rob me.

When they first saw me the car door was between me and them and I don't think they realized that I had a gun. When I stepped out from behind the car door and they saw that I had a gun and more importantly that I was willing to use it they  still didn't run away screaming like little girls.

They pushed it right up to the point where I convinced them that I was about to shoot and then they back down and walked (not ran) away. As I've said numerous times they got 10 or 15 ft away and while was still sitting there shaking like a leaf the one that started it all turned around, laughed at me and told me "XXXX you" and walked away.

I'm extrapolating here but statistically it is unlikely that any of us will ever so much as our firearm in self-defense.

When somebody gets robbed or mugged it's almost always a violent, repeat, criminal offender who does it. I've said this before but the very first time somebody tried to mug me was probably not even their first time trying to mug somebody that night.

The second thing that I learned that I talk about all the time (I'm sorry I know I say this over and over and over again but it's still relevant) it's been my experience but the mere fact that I was armed never intimidated in any criminal that I ever ran into.

I ran into a guy at a laundromat one night at work. It was actually my second encounter with him of the night.

I was driving to work he was crossing the road he stopped in the middle of the road and he had some kind of Club (I found out later it was a trailer hitch) in his hand and he was waving it at my car.

I drew my gun as I drove around him and if he took a swing at my car or tried to stop me I don't know what might have happened.

I called 911 I reported it androveve on to work. I got to work, I did my first two stops and when I rolled up on my third, guess who was sitting on the steps outside the laundromat.

I called the cops before I even got out of the truck and I told them that this was the guy from my earlier 911 call.

I got out of the truck because no matter what I had to tell him to leave, to my knowledge he didn't recognize me but he immediately came off the steps swinging that trailer hitch and daring me to shoot him.

He heard me on the phone with 911 telling them that he had a weapon in his hand and he was threatening me and he left.

There were four or five people at the laundromat doing laundry who witnessed it.

When the cops finally showed up long after this guy was gone (which in itself is a lesson) I learned my third lesson, unless there's a body or blood the cops don't care and they're not interested.

They got the guy's description and his general direction to travel and gave me a call screen number and then they took off and that's all they really cared about.

45 minutes later they called me and told me that they found the guy and did everything they could to talk me out of pressing charges because they didn't want to deal with it.

Once they made it really clear that all they really wanted was to close out the call I asked them to give him a formal trespass notification from the laundromat and went on about my night.

This is the last thing I'm going to say all the street people that I ran into ever in my "career" were all running some kind of scam.

There's a term in sales called ABC, Always Be Closing and that's how these people lived. They always had some hustle going and they were always trying to get something from you.
 
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