testtest

I don’t get it.

3L120 said:
When I worked Rampart Area, LAPD, the station defense rifles were a quartet of Winchester 94s, in 30-30. I was assigned to prepare a station defense plan. This was in the early 70s, when the Weathermen were attacking police buildings, and we carried S&W Model 15s.
Click to expand...
A Model 15 was my first duty gun Courtesy of the USAF love a good Wheelguns.

Some folks disagree but a 30-30 lever action is probably one of the best all around choices whether Pateol or hunting or farm defense.

Montana State Prison used them quite well in a few disturbance back in the day!

Did you know any of the legends in the training And SWAT world from Meteo like Helms, Mudgett or Reitz?
 
ECS686 said:
A Model 15 was my first duty gun Courtesy of the USAF love a good Wheelguns.

Some folks disagree but a 30-30 lever action is probably one of the best all around choices whether Pateol or hunting or farm defense.

Montana State Prison used them quite well in a few disturbance back in the day!

Did you know any of the legends in the training And SWAT world from Meteo like Helms, Mudgett or Reitz?
Click to expand...
30-30 is a mean round.
 
Late to the discussion - have been vacationing in north central AZ earlier this week and sparingly connected to the internet.

First - I would not want to be hit by any bullet in 9mm....or even .22 for that matter.

I have a few caliber choices and I really, really like my PCCs. The Roller delay in the AP5s are just low recoil sweetness. Also, when I shoot the AP5s, I feel like I am shooting a rich history of firearm and operational greatness. Additionally, I have a roller delay buffer system in the UPD-9 that helps.

1750461550839.png
 
OldGrunt said:
I have loaded pistols stashed away in every room in my house. Some rooms have more than one hidden pistol. But all my rifles and shotguns are stored away and not loaded. I do keep a few magazines loaded for the rifles, stored with them, but all my long guns are not quickly accessible. Besides all kinds of loaded pistols around the house, I keep one "long gun" ready to go. That is my Ruger .45 LC Carbine. I love this thing. And it is so much fun to shoot. I'm really starting to put a big dent in my supply of .45 ammo because of it. This thing will reach out far enough for any defensive needs I have around my place. I'm patiently waiting on suppressors to become available for the poor man, without having to dish out money to Big Brother. Hopefully it will happen, so I can fit a suppressor to this. View attachment 86307
Click to expand...

I sure don't NEED anymore guns - but this in 10mm is at the top of my list if I get that itch.
 
Shibadog said:
why would you want less power, less range and at an distance less accuracy?
Click to expand...


Not sure which way it could be spun and respun
Sld1959 said:
One thing I have observed is that many people tend to shoot a long arm better than a pistol, that possibly plays into it along with they just like it. And there is the perception of a 9mm penetrating less in apartments than a .223. Have heard both sides of that but never looked into the. 223 hard.
Click to expand...


Sid1959 hits a lot of points .

Long gun vs handgun . More accurate /easier to shoot accurately, even for experienced handgun shooters .
( In 9 x 19 ) 16 inch rifles DO have more Velocity / Energy / Flatter Trajectory than 9mm from typical handguns . Exact gains vary with burning speed of powder used , but they can approach the level of 4 inch Revolver .357 mag .

For the specifics of 9mm JHP vs specific 5.56 55gr FMJ , the 55gr FMJ will breakup within typical interior wall , while 9mm and most handguns will.penetrate .

That Said ! In most contexts of safe backstops for recreational shooting, .223 will.require more / better backstopping for safe shooting.

Noise - 9mm.carbine is less than 9mm pistol , or. 223 rifle ( by big margin ) . Both from shooters vantage , but can be important for outdoor recreational shooting and disturbing neighbors 4 times as far away .
 
Biggfoot44 said:
Not sure which way it could be spun and respun



Sid1959 hits a lot of points .

Long gun vs handgun . More accurate /easier to shoot accurately, even for experienced handgun shooters .
( In 9 x 19 ) 16 inch rifles DO have more Velocity / Energy / Flatter Trajectory than 9mm from typical handguns . Exact gains vary with burning speed of powder used , but they can approach the level of 4 inch Revolver .357 mag .

For the specifics of 9mm JHP vs specific 5.56 55gr FMJ , the 55gr FMJ will breakup within typical interior wall , while 9mm and most handguns will.penetrate .

That Said ! In most contexts of safe backstops for recreational shooting, .223 will.require more / better backstopping for safe shooting.

Noise - 9mm.carbine is less than 9mm pistol , or. 223 rifle ( by big margin ) . Both from shooters vantage , but can be important for outdoor recreational shooting and disturbing neighbors 4 times as far away .
Click to expand...
And, you’d be mistaken about 5.56/223 needing more of a backstop…particularly when it comes to defensive rounds.

A .223 defensive round—say, a NBT or V-Max—will immediately start to come apart on impact, as well as yaw & tumble—shedding velocity & mass rapidly.

Where a 9mm defensive round—your typical JHP—will plug the nose and become, for all intents and purposes, FMJ…and they go through a lot of walls.

Will they both go through walks, plural? Yes…but .223, with proper load choice will usually go through fewer than most pistol caliber defensive rounds.
 
dadoser said:
Late to the discussion - have been vacationing in north central AZ earlier this week and sparingly connected to the internet.

First - I would not want to be hit by any bullet in 9mm....or even .22 for that matter.

I have a few caliber choices and I really, really like my PCCs. The Roller delay in the AP5s are just low recoil sweetness. Also, when I shoot the AP5s, I feel like I am shooting a rich history of firearm and operational greatness. Additionally, I have a roller delay buffer system in the UPD-9 that helps.

View attachment 86483
Click to expand...
that detail job on what appears to be an AUG - where did you get it, looks great.
 
I'm 59 years old if that makes a difference.

I've talked about this before but at some point I kind of lost all interest in guns as anything other than tools.

I still own guns. I still carry a gun. But I'm not "into guns" anymore. I don't go to Gunstores to browse anymore because I know that if I do sooner or later I will find something to want and I don't have the money.

The only thing that is really on my radar right now is I want a lever action carbine in .357 Magnum for predator control (coyotes) at The Old Folks Home.

I used to own an M1 Carbine and I loved it and would prefer it over an M16 or a Mini14 but I'm not willing to get into an 80 YO rifle that (to my knowledge) very few companies support.
 
The Night Rider said:
I'm 59 years old if that makes a difference.

I've talked about this before but at some point I kind of lost all interest in guns as anything other than tools.

I still own guns. I still carry a gun. But I'm not "into guns" anymore. I don't go to Gunstores to browse anymore because I know that if I do sooner or later I will find something to want and I don't have the money.

The only thing that is really on my radar right now is I want a lever action carbine in .357 Magnum for predator control (coyotes) at The Old Folks Home.

I used to own an M1 Carbine and I loved it and would prefer it over an M16 or a Mini14 but I'm not willing to get into an 80 YO rifle that (to my knowledge) very few companies support.
Click to expand...
Best thing I can tell you is to find a kid to take the range and teach them to shoot. Grandchild, niece/nephew, neighbor kid, etc. You're not the first person in the world to "lose the passion of shooting" but you can do something with it.

I'm not saying this to get you "back into it" necessarily, but to pass your knowledge on. The next generation of shooters is smaller than the last, and it is incumbent upon us to keep it alive. You may not get back into guns, but you may find a new passion in the shooting world. A very rewarding one.

I've been teaching since 91, and it never gets old. Gun models come and go, caliber fads come and go, but the passion of teaching stays the same.

For me, I try to convert as many non and anti-shooters as possible, as well as fostering the curious. You'd be surprised what you can do, and how much knowledge and skill you've accumulated over the years. They say you never realize how much stuff you own until you move, and this follows along those lines. What may seem pedestrian or even common sense to you, could completely blow a new shooter's mind.
 
HansGruber said:
And, you’d be mistaken about 5.56/223 needing more of a backstop…particularly when it comes to defensive rounds.

A .223 defensive round—say, a NBT or V-Max—will immediately start to come apart on impact, as well as yaw & tumble—shedding velocity & mass rapidly.

Where a 9mm defensive round—your typical JHP—will plug the nose and become, for all intents and purposes, FMJ…and they go through a lot of walls.

Will they both go through walks, plural? Yes…but .223, with proper load choice will usually go through fewer than most pistol caliber defensive rounds.
Click to expand...


For Shooting Ranges , .223 rated backstops than the common " Pistol Calibers up to .44 Magnum " backstop ratings .

For the home defense context of interior walls :

M193 and close analogs will fragment In-between drywall layers . Other .223 / 5.56 projectiles vary widely .

Monolithic or Bonded Soft Points ? Designed to give barrier penetration on purpose .
 
Biggfoot44 said:
For Shooting Ranges , .223 rated backstops than the common " Pistol Calibers up to .44 Magnum " backstop ratings .

For the home defense context of interior walls :

M193 and close analogs will fragment In-between drywall layers . Other .223 / 5.56 projectiles vary widely .

Monolithic or Bonded Soft Points ? Designed to give barrier penetration on purpose .
Click to expand...
Yep.

But varmint rounds—which I have loaded in my “up” mags in both my 5.56’s and 7.62’s (both flavors), are pretty good at minimal overpenetration.
 
I get the “less recoil” and cheap ammo argument ( the SMG stuff really doesn’t apply for most folks) and the .357 and .44 Lever gun carbines hit pretty hard ( I have both but they are not7.5 lb rifles). The 9? Well if they were in the 3/3 1/2 pound range maybe, but when a 9 carbine (or lesser caliber) weighs as much or more than a rifle that seems a lot of weight to have for not much power, esp for a SD firearm.
 
HansGruber said:
And, you’d be mistaken about 5.56/223 needing more of a backstop…particularly when it comes to defensive rounds.

A .223 defensive round—say, a NBT or V-Max—will immediately start to come apart on impact, as well as yaw & tumble—shedding velocity & mass rapidly.

Where a 9mm defensive round—your typical JHP—will plug the nose and become, for all intents and purposes, FMJ…and they go through a lot of walls.

Will they both go through walks, plural? Yes…but .223, with proper load choice will usually go through fewer than most pistol caliber defensive rounds.
Click to expand...
depending on wall type....it's yes and no..................i've tested fmj's on many types of objects. 5.56 m193/m855 WILL go thu the driver's door and exit the passenger's door and keep on scooting. 44mag w/hp's, go thru the driver's door and exit the passenger's door and keep on going............both were at 50 yards when fired. ymmv

hp's aren't always the answer(s)!
 
Shibadog said:
I get the “less recoil” and cheap ammo argument ( the SMG stuff really doesn’t apply for most folks) and the .357 and .44 Lever gun carbines hit pretty hard ( I have both but they are not7.5 lb rifles). The 9? Well if they were in the 3/3 1/2 pound range maybe, but when a 9 carbine (or lesser caliber) weighs as much or more than a rifle that seems a lot of weight to have for not much power, esp for a SD firearm.
Click to expand...
Except…

When you run a 9mm in the 5-6# range, sane as a short-barreled 5.56 or 7.62x39 or .300AAC…

That 9mm feels like a .22 in recoil. Running fast—and I mean as fast as you can hit that trigger, less than .2 seconds between your shots…that 9mm PCC will group TIGHT, if you know what you’re doing. The others…will be looser.

I’ve seen this with m’self behind the trigger (and I don’t consider myself a tyro) as well as considerably more experienced shooters.

PCC’s make it easy to get multiple, rapid, accurate hits on target…and that’s what counts.

Now, is this doable with, say an M1 Carbine?

Absof’inglutely! I love my RockOla, but…it’s a lot easier and cheaper to practice with my Z5RS (MP5 clone), and there’s more options for SD ammo than there is in .30 Carbine…and, it’s a more compact package.

Personally, if someone made a reliable semi-auto .357 Magnum carbine that accepted a 20+ round mag…I’ll buy one, hands down.

But they don’t, so…9mm PCC’s have a very solid role to play.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top